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Beofengs and their Ilk-Banned

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Beofengs and their Ilk-Banned

 

 

Yes, but not like you think.

 

As most here who have spent time reading this site know I hate these things. They transmit out of band, they are not certified for anything they can transmit on. The antennas are trash from the factory and they break with annoying regularity.

 

However, a repeater system has banned them

 

 

Apparently as technology has spread for Digital Mobile Radio another issue has come up which has caused the operators of DMR-MARC series of repeaters to ban the use of Chinese radios which have been repeatedly shown to cause harmful interference

 

Baofeng DM-5R test results

 

By Chris Hamilton | 01/03/2017 | Filed under: Uncategorized

 

Rocky Mountain Ham Radio continues to investigate alarming problems with recently released low-cost DMR Tier II radios. This article focuses on the Baofeng DM-5R Plus and Baofeng DM-5R with Tier II firmware update. A later article will examine the Radioddity DM-55 / Tytera MD-398.

 

 

three_dmr_radios-300x225.png?resize=409%2C307

 

Performance of three DMR Tier II radios compared. From left to right: Tytera MD-380, Baofeng DM-5R, Motorola XPR 6550. The Baofeng has the Tier II update applied, making it equivalent to a DM-5R Plus.

 

 

Our tests find that the Baofeng DM-5R is unfit for DMR use and degrades the repeater network. We will continue to forbid the use of it on our systems.

 

Here are our findings.

 

The short version:

 

“Does the DM-5R transmit a legitimate digital voice signal on timeslot 1?” Yes.

 

“Does the DM-5R transmit a legitimate digital voice signal on timeslot 2?” Uncertain. Baofeng says no, but we have been able to activate talkgroups which are only carried on timeslot 2. This requires more research. The radio transmits a copy of the TS1 signal on TS2. It is not supposed to do this. (Updated Jan 5 2017)

 

“When transmitting on one timeslot does the DM-5R jam the other timeslot?” Yes.

 

“What does the jamming signal look like?” It appears to be is a duplicate of the intended signal. This requires more research. (Updated Jan 5 2017)

 

“Are you sure you weren’t using the radio in Tier I mode?” DMR Tier I FDMA and Tier II TDMA are completely incompatible. If the radio were in Tier I it would not be able to activate DMR repeaters or work with other Tier II radios in digital simplex. Our DM-5R with the Tier II update is able to do both of those things.

 

“Has the Baofeng DM-5R been tested and approved by the DMR Association?” No.

 

“Will Rocky Mountain Ham Radio allow the DM-5R to be used on its amateur DMR repeaters?” No.

 

“What if I ignore your ban and use the DM-5R on the RMHam network anyway?” You will raise the noise floor at the repeater for anyone attempting to use the other timeslot. This is called jamming. It is poor practice at best. If you choose to do this anyway it could be interpreted as deliberate interference which is forbidden under FCC regulations.

 

“Isn’t ham radio just a fun toy? What am I hurting by using the Baofeng DM-5R?” We cannot speak for other DMR networks but Rocky Mountain Ham Radio has prioritized robustness and reliability from the beginning. We want our repeater network to perform flawlessly in the case of a disaster and this philosophy shapes every decision we make. This radio is more than a nuisance, it poses a direct threat our ability to respond to a disaster.

 

“Are other DMR networks banning the DM-5R?” Yes. Hoosier DMR is known to have banned them in late November. There are likely to be others.

 

“Will you be able to identify hams who are using the DM-5R?” We’re working on it. Yes. (Updated Jan 5 2017)

 

“Will Baofeng update this radio to allow correct use of both timeslots?” Given their responses to date this seems unlikely. Some teardowns indicate it may be impossible due to inadequate switching speed of the RF section, although we have not verified this.

 

“What has their response been?” Baofeng and Radioddity have consistently stated that if you wanted a two-timeslot radio you should have purchased one.

 

“Have they addressed the issue of jamming?” Not that we have seen.

 

“Are there any other issues with these radios I should know about?” The Baofeng DM-5R frequently glitches while reading or writing memory channels. This causes them to receive and transmit incorrect talkgroup parameters.

 

“Are the ARRL or FCC doing anything about this?” Not yet. They took effective action on bad GFCI outlets and grow lamp ballasts once enough people complained. Consider writing some polite letters.”

 

“Motorola radios and the software to program them are really expensive! I don’t even know if I will like DMR. Are there good, affordable entry-level radios?” The Connect Systems CS750 is an excellent performer at $180. The Tytera MD-380 at $120 is pretty good. Programming software is free for both of these.

 

“Are those radios dual band?” No. At this time there are no other dual-band DMR radios on the market. Connect Systems has announced one with an expected availability in early 2017.

 

“What am I missing by having a single-band DMR radio?” Mostly you lose the ability to operate DMR while traveling to regions where another band dominates. In the Colorado Front Range nearly all DMR activity is on 70cm. Rocky Mountain Ham Radio will be deploying 2m DMR to Colorado’s Eastern Plains in the near future.

 

What does this mean?

 

 

It means you should have bought a decent type certified radio for use as a DMR for yourself and groups. Buying low end does your group a serious disservice and the owners of DMR repeaters are actively tracking users of these radios for the FCC for creating, knowingly, harmful interference.

 

A long overdue progression with these substandard radios.

 

Beofengs and their Ilk-Banned

 

The post Beofengs and their Ilk-Banned appeared first on The Quiet Survivalist.

 

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Great info. I am working toward the technician class. Goes without saying...I don't know diddly about the subject. Although I should know by now, slave labor does not produce quality products. Ya, I'm one of the knuckle heads that let my wallet steer me into a, probably regrettable, first purchase of a BF-F8HP. I did buy a "true" Nagoya NA-24T antenna as well. Your thoughts, advice? Assuming BF-F8HP is of the ilk you refer to. Thanks man.

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Ok

I'm really going to step on toes with this reply

 

NOTHING made in china is a suitable radio to trust your life on. There are radios out there which will do everything you need as a UHF/VHF hand held radio, submersible and use antennas which have standard antenna connections across the board instead of the reversed connections the Chinese radios use.

 

Yeasu VX-7 now and always is the best individual radio made. It was discontinued because the Japanese govt didn't want a military radio produced for civilian markets. That's the real reason it was discontinued and replaced with the VX-8.

 

They can be found on ebay and ham forums for sale and unless horribly abused they are fine as used radios as well.

 

The VX -8 is a fine radio, and eventually someone will find a work around for its software to let it do what the VX-7 was capable of.

 

The other argument for the Chinese radios is the list of freqs posted by Radiomaster and his site which is really nothing but a Beofeng worship site. Some of the freqs are useful in some circumstances but they are limited by the antennas.

 

The disadvantage with wide band radios is you need 4 antennas to get the full range of freqs from a beofeng radio. The laws of propagation don't change even when you buy a $25 radio. You need an education before you buy a radio

 

The Yeasu radios are capable of transmitting on the 222mhz and 6m bands at very low power as well. As are a few of the other big name radios

 

If it were me writing your groups comms plan Id use the junk radios as training radios and keep the planned freqs and radios for use in closed group training. Going cheap in commo gear is worse than buying a cheap web rig, cheap rifle or cheap ammo.

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IAT

 

I commend you on your education about radios. IMO the standard for my group will forever be everyone holds a General class license because knowledge is more important than gear.

 

Never rely on anyone knowing how to establish comms, to call medivac, to arrange pick up or to keep messages going higher, or lower in that case.

 

Comms are the MOST important skill set in your group. Follow that with medical and then all the tactical crap everyone trains for first because its sexy or fun.

 

Sexy and fun are right there with flying the gear like the fat kids playing airsoft.

 

If you cant run a comms section, you are just playing around. And playing blind as well. Everyone needs to know.

 

Most groups are playing rifle squad , they should be training up to the 18 level skill sets. Intel,( detailed area surveys, probable and possible friendlies and hostiles) comms ( Not a FUCKKING BEOFENG), medical( an Ebay fist aid kit does not a medic make) and engineering ( Destroying things). Most of this stuff is better done in a class room not in the field .

 

But most groups are playing in the woods, not learning anything but how to carry to much shit and attracting TV cameras.

 

Group training targets should be positioned toward working as a team in comms specialization of signals intercept and intelligence, medical stabilization and evac, reconnaissance of targets and learning about mechanical destruction techniques.

 

Then you can work up to the infantry side, which is usually the first skill groups train on but the last thing they will use. Reading fiction online about revolutions is a Thoreau fantasy in real life.

 

All the put on camo and run around in the woods should be individual skill sets. Education will get you ahead of the bubbas, and keep you safer as well

 

Buying communications gear should be the purchase you make AFTER your education. Not before. Its like buying ammo before you have a rifle, holsters before a pistol.

 

I'm not sure why the movement is gear driven, when education takes much more time and effort.

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I respectfully disagree on a few key premise points in your posts.

 

First, lets discuss skills. There is no single, or group, of skills that are more important than any others. The caveat here is, that it depends on the individual's job (military occupational specialty). Every soldier, regardless of MOS, receives training in a series of basic tactical and technical skills. Once their basic training is complete, they are given instruction on their specialty. This is where skill importance is dependent upon specialization. No one soldier, no matter the MOS series (including Special Forces, 18 series), will master all skills. Doc(18D) will not be able to call in an Artillery strike on a location, or establish a Satellite uplink with higher command. These skills are outside of his primary and likely his secondary training.

 

With all that being said, I agree with the stance on the door kicking training being the last thing to focus on. Technical skills are the most costly and arguably time consuming skills to master. Take the classroom time to teach the fundamentals of each skillset, then move to the field to apply it to realistic scenarios. We do this is the U.S. Army, in the crawl, walk, run phase. Crawl phase is giving the soldier the information they need to know. Walk, includes both walking them through applying the skills, and having them demonstrate they can apply it without being guided. Finally, the run phase is when you go to the field and have them demonstrate the skill(s) in applied scenarios.

 

Imagine training a radio operator. First, you explain the fundamentals of radio theory, electronics theory, and basic methodology of operating the radios. Next, you walk them through operating the radios, calling for medivac, air support, etc. Then you have them demonstrate they've gotten that. Finally, you take them to the field, and have them carry the radio while using it appropriately to their job. Ambush them to have them stressed, and still using the radio correctly.

 

The final point I'll bring up, is the discouraging others from using the baofeng radios. The choice of which radio to use is entirely based upon the scenario and use. In the case of the radio interference caused by using Baofengs on repeaters, that is a hobby use, and it is entirely in their right to ban them. In the use in a field environment where a HT would be used, you are not likely to be worried about overreaching your bandwidth. In most cases, its best to double or even triple the distance between channels used to protect the channels from that. HAMs are known to try to jam radios when used illegally (not all, just some, the HAM community is zealous about policing the frequencies they are allowed to use).

 

The limitations on Baofengs are well known, they range in price from $10-50 USD. I have no problems with using Baofeng BF-888s for close range, low power communications. I carry two for distribution, and carry my Pofung UV-6R for my personal use. They work well for my uses. If I worked with a group that needed the comms I provide, I won't be hurt financially or emotionally over the destruction/loss of those radios. But then, that is the intention I had with those radios. I accept the trade-off of lower quality radio with all its limitations, over being emotionally tied to a radio(s) that I would be pretty upset if I lost or broke. Likewise, the cost of Yeasu VX-7Rs are $200 USD or more on Ebay. For that cost, the radio better do more than just emit and receive signals.

 

As always, your mileage will vary

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Without letting to much out on a public forum here's my biggest issue with those damn Chinese radios

 

And my reasons are obvious if you have read my " About me" page

 

I can identify radios by their signature on a Doppler DF rig, and beofengs and their Ilk are the easiest. They transmit off freq, all of them and are extremely easy to DF with spurious emissions showing, so in a very small timeframe I know who is keying the mic and where they are. Its not difficult to see how easy it is to establish a pattern of harmful interference which is grounds for a search without a warrant.

 

They are not the same from unit to unit and are so far off from accepted specs it is disturbing. However, they are good for that particular reason. And very good for establishing each individual and their particular electronic signature.

 

That's a hint

 

In capitol letters HINT

 

About learning and cross training. Its about establishing a realistic standard.

 

There's a saying, Id rather have a guy in his skivvies, in a light coat of grease and armed with a toasting fork , with the proper fighting spirit over a dozen bubbas armed to the teeth who are there to pass time.

 

A realistic standard is used to encourage learning, and maintain the groups integrity over the long term. Why should 1 guy get to coast when its everyone's money and effort on the line. Its about everyone pulling their weight.

 

My lady is an RN, do we expect everyone to be at her level?

 

No. Saying that everyone needs to be able to treat a major bleeder, a sucking chest wound, flail chest and a dismemberment before she gets there. Not to mention allergic reactions and common ailments happening in the field WITHOUT becoming a burden on our group due to things they could have avoided with some learning as opposed to just coasting.

 

EVERYONE needs to step up and learn and not just rely on everyone else to cover. You come up to an established standard , which is not hard to achieve but it requires more effort than buying the bare minimum and calling it good.

 

We have established standards all the way down to magazines, ammunition ( bullet weight and manufacturer) and FAK ( brands and types of tourniquets and chest seals) packing lists. That's the effort we've put into OUR group.

 

So why allow a lower standard in to drag us down? Its not teamwork, its dragging an anchor.

 

Coasting might fly in the Army, but at least in my crew you keep up or you are gone. No running them off, they figure out fast its about keeping pace or getting left behind.

 

People will rise to the level of expectations, and they will also coast or walk away if not challenged to excel. I have seen the same in school and the Army, there are people in every unit who are far ahead of the rest, and who gravitate to the more high speed units. In the same thread, there are some who are there just to attend and fill time until they ETS.

 

Comms- I don't expect everyone to be an Extra, but they damn sure need to be a General because its about knowing what you don't know. So you don't fry a $1000 radio, or giving away your position and identifying yourself on what is in fact an illegal, uncertified radio. And having the knowledge to understand that is a fact not an opinion.

 

Your opinion about what a radio should do or not is that. A radio should work, no matter what, transmit inside the accepted band and in the legal limits and frequencies so 1 or 2 members of your group don't bring unwanted attention.

 

Or the entire group, underestimating or holding a potential adversary in contempt will come back to bite you fast.

 

Ask me how I know that

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Well, I believe we are miscommunicating, and this saddens me. The tone of your posts seem angry, or frustrated, and slightly disrespectful.

 

A lot of the points you make about skills appear to compare apples and oranges. Your old lady is an RN, but you don't specify if she is specialty rated or not. My Grandmother was a surgical and trauma RN since World War II. Further, comparing a first responder, combat lifesaver, or medic to a nurse isn't comparing the same thing exactly. An RN's job is to facilitate the overall health of the patient. A combat medic, combat lifesaver, or a first responder's job is to render immediate first aid to save the life of the patient. Docs (or medics for those who read after this exchange), often act more like nurses, and Special Forces Docs (18Ds) often have train to perform surgical proceedures in the field. This still doesn't compare the two accurately.

 

As for a baseline of skills, I agree with you. Everyone who works together should have a basic level of skills. I do not advocate the use of HAM licensing as appropriate, though. The reason being, that in tactical communications, if you are a HAM, you are well aware of (and have no excuse for not knowing) the use of encryption, codes, or any other form of non-plain communication is illegal. Doing so can result in a hefty fine.

 

As for the radios, we have many points to them. Combat is a trade-off.

 

The vulnerabilities of Baofengs are a limitation, and the individual communications choices need to decide if they can been worked around. One example I can think of off the top of my head is an old cell phone trick. Turn off the radio, turn it on only at appointed times, i.e. at the top of every quarter, and check in. Once the check in is done, and all information needed to passed on is complete, the operator turns it back off and you charlie mike.

 

Radio Direction Finding is a dying art. The current US capabilities for such is limited to overstretched teams within the FCC. The armed forces do not have the equipment to do so. For the FCC to intervene, as revealed to me by a friend in the commission, a citizen (most likely a HAM) must identify improper radio usage and notify the FCC. A case number is assigned, which then gets triaged and assigned to a team closest to the incident. When they arrive, they use their equipment to do basic RDF in the same manner that HAMs do, by driving around and picking up the signal, if its still ongoing. For identification of unique RF signatures, forensic tests have to be done, and that is cost prohibitive. I can't speak to the ability of the first responders capabilities to record RF signatures, but I assume its indeed probable. But as with so many things, using intelligence and selecting when, where, and the duration of use can avoid a lot attention. The practice of using programmable radios for Part 95 frequencies is neither new nor unique.

 

For those unaware how RF signatures are handled: the responding agency would need to record the RF signature in the "wild", then suspect devices can be secured and tested in "RF Clean" facilities. Those tests compare the signature in the "wild" with the specific device signature. If a citizen opts to go to federal court instead of paying the fine they are issued, the onus is on the FCC to provide that signature analysis.

 

If/when it comes to conflict, the routine use of RDF is unlikely. The scenarios would most likely dictate when/if RDF would be fielded.

 

As an aside, do you have suggestions on where I can read more about the Baofeng's RF signature and off frequency broadcasting?

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Thank you for the info. I knew, when I bought the cheap radio, that it would be just that,cheap. But as you stated it will be a handy training tool. And when it gets destroyed, in training, it wont be so painful. Now i have good starting point for the unit that will become the work horse, like a well provisioned medic pack, or a dependable knife. These types of tools cannot be weak links.

I agree that the training you highlight is much more useful than the more popular. Information is "gold" in my book, never looses value, can't be stolen, or taxed.

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The Baofeng UV-5R radios are quite popular with groups in my area. The above article talks about the DM-5R radios, and I am wondering if this issue applies to the other models as well. The communicate part of "learn to shoot, move, and communicate" has become quite complex due to rapid technology advances. We can spend a couple thousand on weaponry, a couple grand on gear, but everyone seems to be happy with a $27 radio. Comms is definitely something to consider as important as the rest of your gear.

 

I will add that there are those that use the cheap radio for monitoring local emergency stations, and leaving these radios in their vehicles or taking them along during their daily routine. Disposable electronics do have their places.

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Ok

 

The radios in the post above are digital DMR radios using a specific program called MOTOTRBO originally made by Motorola. Its an open source and its become standard for DMR radios over D-STAR and Yeasu version.

 

They are as bad as the analog radios we are talking about as well.

 

Google some articles , especially the ARRL tests they did at Dayton a few years ago and they found these cheap radios are totally messed up. Transmitting out of band, bleeding over sometimes 3-4 frequencies on the 15Mhz spread which is standard.

 

These radios as the sit are fair to ok for monitoring repeaters now. The voice comms by the ham clubs supporting Emergency Services will be disinformation because everybody has a scanner or a cheap radio.

 

The factual information will be sent out in digital format, usually PSK31 or the like. I know that is Chinese to you right now. That's also why my group requires an education before you get in. We wont have time to teach a classroom full of people who refused to learn before, and instead wanted to run around playing Army but not learning a thing useful

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Thank you for posting that

 

It amounts too 50% of the cheap radios are non compliant and transmit out of band

 

Yeah , the next posts will be " I don't care" or " nobody is listening"

 

Yes, someone is listening. Just like the groups using Marine band radios are finding out the hard way.

 

Because they are so easy to identify with a spectrometer on a SDR Doppler rig you can keep them. The posts talking about the fcc and how they develop a case is outdated info, the FCC is not part of "other" agencies and some research on your own using some very basic Google skills will show you that.

 

This is the same debate on every forum, there are the ones who know, and try to educate and there are the majority who have no clue about what they are talking about and spread the emotional responses because they bought junk and now search for someone to tell them they made a good decision

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Ok Im going to bite and throw you a cookie

 

But it will require a bit of effort on your part

 

I find it very amusing the way you word your question to frame my answer. You must be a lawyer or LE.

 

The FCC? No. Take a look at the Patriot act, specifically the sections concerning state/local agencies to use federal law and regulation to develop PC for arrests with federal law they formerly had no authority to enforce.

Operation Stone Garden as a place to start

 

Then look at frequency allocations to State and local agencies in the marine bands, laws concerning interference with Emergency service communication which has been extended to some hospital frequencies. Look specifically at the Phx Az area frequency allocations, the channels on PD which are also in the marine bands. G&F freqs across the nation in Marine bands but allocated to LE use because of the distance from waterways and of course Federal agency freqs as well which are allocated inside the marine band for interagency coordination.

 

Operation Sandkey is another which uses fixed station DF surveillance specifically to intercept marine band freqs

 

So, you are believing the FCC lost their enforcement authority because the govt has your best interest in mind, you believe the govt has abandoned the authority it had out of the goodness of its collective heart or you know the authority transferred to another agency and you want to know how much I have figured out from open source information.

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I'm not sure if your being a dick is normal, but its fucking tiring. You made a claim, and I asked for supporting evidence. I've tried to be respectful, you didn't reciprocate. I've tried being neutral, and you're still being a Caboose. Relax, until you prove you aren't worth listening to, no one is questioning your background. Just what you are presenting. Common rules of Rhetoric dictates, you make an assertion, you support it.

 

I'm sorry I questioned anything to do with RDF, being Information Operations in the Army doesn't give me permission to reveal the source of my information, so I should not have brought it up.

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Well Im not being a dick, Im simply giving you a manner which you can find answers to the questions you ask me.

 

I don't want your sources of information, I do however challenge the degree of your information you post. I never called you names or called you out specifically on your lack of knowledge about certain things, I pointed out you frame your questions in order to solicit specific answers.

 

If Im " fucking tiring" Im happy to delete my feeds and leave.

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Being on a site full of alpha males isn't always going to be lovey dovey :) Lets try to assume good faith across the board and be respectful of each other .

 

thanks guys

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Ok

 

Yeasu VX-7 now and always is the best individual radio made. It was discontinued because the Japanese govt didn't want a military radio produced for civilian markets. That's the real reason it was discontinued and replaced with the VX-8.

 

..........

 

The VX -8 is a fine radio, and eventually someone will find a work around for its software to let it do what the VX-7 was capable of.

 

 

What exactly does the YAESU VX-7 do that the VX-8 can not do?

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Beofengs and their Ilk-Banned

 

 

Yes, but not like you think.

 

As most here who have spent time reading this site know I hate these things. They transmit out of band, they are not certified for anything they can transmit on. The antennas are trash from the factory and they break with annoying regularity.

 

However, a repeater system has banned them

 

 

Apparently as technology has spread for Digital Mobile Radio another issue has come up which has caused the operators of DMR-MARC series of repeaters to ban the use of Chinese radios which have been repeatedly shown to cause harmful interference

 

Baofeng DM-5R test results

 

By Chris Hamilton | 01/03/2017 | Filed under: Uncategorized

 

Rocky Mountain Ham Radio continues to investigate alarming problems with recently released low-cost DMR Tier II radios. This article focuses on the Baofeng DM-5R Plus and Baofeng DM-5R with Tier II firmware update. A later article will examine the Radioddity DM-55 / Tytera MD-398.

 

 

three_dmr_radios-300x225.png?resize=409%2C307

 

Performance of three DMR Tier II radios compared. From left to right: Tytera MD-380, Baofeng DM-5R, Motorola XPR 6550. The Baofeng has the Tier II update applied, making it equivalent to a DM-5R Plus.

 

 

Our tests find that the Baofeng DM-5R is unfit for DMR use and degrades the repeater network. We will continue to forbid the use of it on our systems.

 

Here are our findings.

 

The short version:

 

“Does the DM-5R transmit a legitimate digital voice signal on timeslot 1?” Yes.

 

“Does the DM-5R transmit a legitimate digital voice signal on timeslot 2?” Uncertain. Baofeng says no, but we have been able to activate talkgroups which are only carried on timeslot 2. This requires more research. The radio transmits a copy of the TS1 signal on TS2. It is not supposed to do this. (Updated Jan 5 2017)

 

“When transmitting on one timeslot does the DM-5R jam the other timeslot?” Yes.

 

“What does the jamming signal look like?” It appears to be is a duplicate of the intended signal. This requires more research. (Updated Jan 5 2017)

 

“Are you sure you weren’t using the radio in Tier I mode?” DMR Tier I FDMA and Tier II TDMA are completely incompatible. If the radio were in Tier I it would not be able to activate DMR repeaters or work with other Tier II radios in digital simplex. Our DM-5R with the Tier II update is able to do both of those things.

 

“Has the Baofeng DM-5R been tested and approved by the DMR Association?” No.

 

“Will Rocky Mountain Ham Radio allow the DM-5R to be used on its amateur DMR repeaters?” No.

 

“What if I ignore your ban and use the DM-5R on the RMHam network anyway?” You will raise the noise floor at the repeater for anyone attempting to use the other timeslot. This is called jamming. It is poor practice at best. If you choose to do this anyway it could be interpreted as deliberate interference which is forbidden under FCC regulations.

 

“Isn’t ham radio just a fun toy? What am I hurting by using the Baofeng DM-5R?” We cannot speak for other DMR networks but Rocky Mountain Ham Radio has prioritized robustness and reliability from the beginning. We want our repeater network to perform flawlessly in the case of a disaster and this philosophy shapes every decision we make. This radio is more than a nuisance, it poses a direct threat our ability to respond to a disaster.

 

“Are other DMR networks banning the DM-5R?” Yes. Hoosier DMR is known to have banned them in late November. There are likely to be others.

 

“Will you be able to identify hams who are using the DM-5R?” We’re working on it. Yes. (Updated Jan 5 2017)

 

“Will Baofeng update this radio to allow correct use of both timeslots?” Given their responses to date this seems unlikely. Some teardowns indicate it may be impossible due to inadequate switching speed of the RF section, although we have not verified this.

 

“What has their response been?” Baofeng and Radioddity have consistently stated that if you wanted a two-timeslot radio you should have purchased one.

 

“Have they addressed the issue of jamming?” Not that we have seen.

 

“Are there any other issues with these radios I should know about?” The Baofeng DM-5R frequently glitches while reading or writing memory channels. This causes them to receive and transmit incorrect talkgroup parameters.

 

“Are the ARRL or FCC doing anything about this?” Not yet. They took effective action on bad GFCI outlets and grow lamp ballasts once enough people complained. Consider writing some polite letters.”

 

“Motorola radios and the software to program them are really expensive! I don’t even know if I will like DMR. Are there good, affordable entry-level radios?” The Connect Systems CS750 is an excellent performer at $180. The Tytera MD-380 at $120 is pretty good. Programming software is free for both of these.

 

“Are those radios dual band?” No. At this time there are no other dual-band DMR radios on the market. Connect Systems has announced one with an expected availability in early 2017.

 

“What am I missing by having a single-band DMR radio?” Mostly you lose the ability to operate DMR while traveling to regions where another band dominates. In the Colorado Front Range nearly all DMR activity is on 70cm. Rocky Mountain Ham Radio will be deploying 2m DMR to Colorado’s Eastern Plains in the near future.

 

What does this mean?

 

 

It means you should have bought a decent type certified radio for use as a DMR for yourself and groups. Buying low end does your group a serious disservice and the owners of DMR repeaters are actively tracking users of these radios for the FCC for creating, knowingly, harmful interference.

 

A long overdue progression with these substandard radios.

 

Beofengs and their Ilk-Banned

 

The post Beofengs and their Ilk-Banned appeared first on The Quiet Survivalist.

 

Original Source

Beofengs and their Ilk-Banned

 

 

Yes, but not like you think.

 

As most here who have spent time reading this site know I hate these things. They transmit out of band, they are not certified for anything they can transmit on. The antennas are trash from the factory and they break with annoying regularity.

 

However, a repeater system has banned them

 

 

Apparently as technology has spread for Digital Mobile Radio another issue has come up which has caused the operators of DMR-MARC series of repeaters to ban the use of Chinese radios which have been repeatedly shown to cause harmful interference

 

Baofeng DM-5R test results

 

By Chris Hamilton | 01/03/2017 | Filed under: Uncategorized

 

Rocky Mountain Ham Radio continues to investigate alarming problems with recently released low-cost DMR Tier II radios. This article focuses on the Baofeng DM-5R Plus and Baofeng DM-5R with Tier II firmware update. A later article will examine the Radioddity DM-55 / Tytera MD-398.

 

 

three_dmr_radios-300x225.png?resize=409%2C307

 

Performance of three DMR Tier II radios compared. From left to right: Tytera MD-380, Baofeng DM-5R, Motorola XPR 6550. The Baofeng has the Tier II update applied, making it equivalent to a DM-5R Plus.

 

 

Our tests find that the Baofeng DM-5R is unfit for DMR use and degrades the repeater network. We will continue to forbid the use of it on our systems.

 

Here are our findings.

 

The short version:

 

“Does the DM-5R transmit a legitimate digital voice signal on timeslot 1?” Yes.

 

“Does the DM-5R transmit a legitimate digital voice signal on timeslot 2?” Uncertain. Baofeng says no, but we have been able to activate talkgroups which are only carried on timeslot 2. This requires more research. The radio transmits a copy of the TS1 signal on TS2. It is not supposed to do this. (Updated Jan 5 2017)

 

“When transmitting on one timeslot does the DM-5R jam the other timeslot?” Yes.

 

“What does the jamming signal look like?” It appears to be is a duplicate of the intended signal. This requires more research. (Updated Jan 5 2017)

 

“Are you sure you weren’t using the radio in Tier I mode?” DMR Tier I FDMA and Tier II TDMA are completely incompatible. If the radio were in Tier I it would not be able to activate DMR repeaters or work with other Tier II radios in digital simplex. Our DM-5R with the Tier II update is able to do both of those things.

 

“Has the Baofeng DM-5R been tested and approved by the DMR Association?” No.

 

“Will Rocky Mountain Ham Radio allow the DM-5R to be used on its amateur DMR repeaters?” No.

 

“What if I ignore your ban and use the DM-5R on the RMHam network anyway?” You will raise the noise floor at the repeater for anyone attempting to use the other timeslot. This is called jamming. It is poor practice at best. If you choose to do this anyway it could be interpreted as deliberate interference which is forbidden under FCC regulations.

 

“Isn’t ham radio just a fun toy? What am I hurting by using the Baofeng DM-5R?” We cannot speak for other DMR networks but Rocky Mountain Ham Radio has prioritized robustness and reliability from the beginning. We want our repeater network to perform flawlessly in the case of a disaster and this philosophy shapes every decision we make. This radio is more than a nuisance, it poses a direct threat our ability to respond to a disaster.

 

“Are other DMR networks banning the DM-5R?” Yes. Hoosier DMR is known to have banned them in late November. There are likely to be others.

 

“Will you be able to identify hams who are using the DM-5R?” We’re working on it. Yes. (Updated Jan 5 2017)

 

“Will Baofeng update this radio to allow correct use of both timeslots?” Given their responses to date this seems unlikely. Some teardowns indicate it may be impossible due to inadequate switching speed of the RF section, although we have not verified this.

 

“What has their response been?” Baofeng and Radioddity have consistently stated that if you wanted a two-timeslot radio you should have purchased one.

 

“Have they addressed the issue of jamming?” Not that we have seen.

 

“Are there any other issues with these radios I should know about?” The Baofeng DM-5R frequently glitches while reading or writing memory channels. This causes them to receive and transmit incorrect talkgroup parameters.

 

“Are the ARRL or FCC doing anything about this?” Not yet. They took effective action on bad GFCI outlets and grow lamp ballasts once enough people complained. Consider writing some polite letters.”

 

“Motorola radios and the software to program them are really expensive! I don’t even know if I will like DMR. Are there good, affordable entry-level radios?” The Connect Systems CS750 is an excellent performer at $180. The Tytera MD-380 at $120 is pretty good. Programming software is free for both of these.

 

“Are those radios dual band?” No. At this time there are no other dual-band DMR radios on the market. Connect Systems has announced one with an expected availability in early 2017.

 

“What am I missing by having a single-band DMR radio?” Mostly you lose the ability to operate DMR while traveling to regions where another band dominates. In the Colorado Front Range nearly all DMR activity is on 70cm. Rocky Mountain Ham Radio will be deploying 2m DMR to Colorado’s Eastern Plains in the near future.

 

What does this mean?

 

 

It means you should have bought a decent type certified radio for use as a DMR for yourself and groups. Buying low end does your group a serious disservice and the owners of DMR repeaters are actively tracking users of these radios for the FCC for creating, knowingly, harmful interference.

 

A long overdue progression with these substandard radios.

 

Beofengs and their Ilk-Banned

 

The post Beofengs and their Ilk-Banned appeared first on The Quiet Survivalist.

 

Original Source

What mobile comm would be considered one of the best to invest in?

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I'm on the fence here. I can't afford 7 million dollars worth of gear and 4 million in training. I will use a shotgun and a Nra hat if that's what I got. I thought the whole idea of a militia was to educate, cross train skills, cohesion, team effort. Some guys wanna be big swingers. Fine by me, that's how groups fall apart.

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What mobile comm would be considered one of the best to invest in?

It depends on the purpose. For close range comms, between teammates, starting with some gmrs/frs handhelds is a good start. Going for longer distance, maybe look at CBs, or getting a ham radio. Learn the rules of use, and getting licensed to transmit will put you on the right side of the law in most circumstances.

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For sure! Even if there were repeaters available where im operating i don't think i would want to broadcast any further than my teammates location(2 meter handhelds are perfect no matter the brand). I wouldn't rule out use of CBs depending on what you need them for but a HF radio and a windom antenna(20, 40, 160 meter bands) is all you need for long distance.

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    Sasq Mark Schroeder WMD Joey Adair CleanSweeper The Resister

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