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Posted (edited)

It is with a great uneasiness that i write about this subject. There is nothing civil about war, and i for one do not welcome war in any manner.

However, it is a subject making the rounds on social media and many of my family members are openly discussing it. So, i did some research and

found this article on a page called "SPLINTER" written by a person named Hamilton Nolan entitled "THIS IS ONLY THE BEGINNING".

This clown insists that me and my fascists (his words not mine) friends should be hounded while eating at a restaurant, and number of

other things to let us know that we are criminals and should be destroyed. OK, well Hamilton I would like to remind you that we are the ones

who have the guns, and you and your ilk will be put down rather quickly. Oh, you say California is your salvation because they will become

their own country, and then get the support of China. There are a lot of rich people in California who will not warm to that idea, as many of them

would not survive the purge that would soon follow. Also, California has a severe problem with homeless people. If you don't think they will start

raiding your supplies then you haven't studied the first civil war. Hamilton you have nothing to fear though, its not like your going to put your dumbass

on the front lines your calling for. No you have others do all the dirty work and then you'll write about it.

 

  My friends, these people are very dangerous, and extremely ignorant concerning things such as this.

But to me that makes them all the more dangerous...

 

https://splinternews.com/this-is-just-the-beginning-1827099100

 

Edited by Idlestorm
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 Actually i was wondering if someone smarter than me would help me out on this subject. As far as a war of words equaling a physical war, the first civil war "battle"

was when HOR (House Of Representative)  Preston Brooks took this cane and attacked Sumner Brooks, a Republican Senator. This happened in May of 1856 and the subject matter was over slavery. Brooks was given a token punishment, and a city in Florida named for him. Brooks resigned, but was re-elected in 1857, but died a few months before he could return to the House. Also, we have the guy just a few months ago who decided to take his target practice at a Republican softball team, and almost killed a Senator there. So, words may not make a war, but the actions that they foment can sure start them. Not sure if that's what your looking for, but that's the best i got. I'm not a expert at anything, but i do watch my surroundings and the times they are a changin.

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If your paying a grand for an ak47 then your smoking some serious crack  

 

The left has guns and if you combine with the fact they have allegiance to socialist and commmies party's you can expect that Russians and Mexicans can arm and train them.   On top of the major gang's are well armed and militarized.   Plus they infiltrated the police and miliitary.   Which is one more thing to consider the miliitary isn't going to just join the right side of the battle in fact you be shocked to see that the majority will gun grab and kill you.

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19 minutes ago, Megatron said:

If your paying a grand for an ak47 then your smoking some serious crack  

 

The left has guns and if you combine with the fact they have allegiance to socialist and commmies party's you can expect that Russians and Mexicans can arm and train them.   On top of the major gang's are well armed and militarized.   Plus they infiltrated the police and miliitary.   Which is one more thing to consider the miliitary isn't going to just join the right side of the battle in fact you be shocked to see that the majority will gun grab and kill you.

 

I wouldn't be surprised.  They already did it during Hurricane Katrina with local police and National Guard as a beta test for national gun confiscation.

 

NRA: The Untold Story of Gun Confiscation After Katrina

 

 

National Guard Confiscated Guns During Katrina and NOPD Raped Women

 

 

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I gotta say that the LEO's are one of the wildcards in any SHTF situation. I was highly disappointed by some local PD members I've known for years and their response to talk of 2A; one abruptly just walked away. The local Sherriffs deputies seem a little more aligned but not 100%. 

I attended a rally a couple months back and you could feel the disdain from some of the "peace keepers" who were watching attendees. 

As far as gangs, I believe some are certainly heavily armed and won't be squeamish in using violence. Hopefully they'll start by dispensing with their rivals first leaving less for the rest of us to worry about.

Lastly, we can't even be sure how our friends and family are going to respond if the going gets tough. All that to say keep your powder dry.

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11 hours ago, The Resister said:

 

The left and the gangs are nowhere near as well armed as the average right winger.  Additionally, they lack the skills.  No doubt that the Russians could supply them with some arms.  But Mexicans?  They don't even trust their own people with weapons.  I remember once, they armed the Mexican police with slingshots.  What "arms" does Mexico manufacture?

 

I think you might be confusing conventional warfare with civil (internal) war.  Waco and Ruby Ridge told me that our own military and police will worry more about their paychecks and serving their master as opposed to protecting the Liberties of the people.  The biggest problem the American people have is the incremental encroachment on their Liberties by their own government.  The modern militia simply does not have the caliber of people that will sit down and articulate what their concept of Liberty is.  We reserve that time for arguing over petty scenarios that haven't happened, have never happened and never will happen.  We don't deal with the here and now.

 

I can't say whether or not someone smokes crack because they'd pay a grand for an AK 47, but unless you want a WASR or the cheap American knockoff... or a stamped rifle, then a grand is barely enough to buy a Norinco (esp. a Polytech) or one of the  high end milled weapons.  Most of that is due to the import ban, not the actual value of the weapons.  I don't know where you are from, but around here you still see AR rifles that are over a grand and even $2000 Glocks - though I don't have a clue what they can do that a factory model out of the box won't.

 

In my scenarios, I presume that the bulk of the LEO community would join the effort to disarm the people.  "It's the law" is the only think most of them seem to respond to.  Even in idle conversation, if they feel threatened by you even contemplating what you'd do in a SHTF scenario wherein our police and / or military is playing the part of the bad guy, those people will kill you.  They would kill you dead today over even idle conversation.

Where you do live 2012 ...  

 

You can build ar15 for 400 dollars.  I can get a ak for 450 all day long even if they suck.

 

2000 dollar glocks?   Are they gold plated with diamonds.  Seriously I can't take you seriously anymore  

 

The left has training and only a idiot would under estimate his opponent. I guess you might wanna focus on tactics and copy and paste Facebook rants.

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My dos pesos: The OP's linked article reads like an anarchists rant, an anarchist who would throw a fit as soon as the "evil corporate" toys like his iphone and other stuff quit working. Do we need to worry about the vociferous betas that post on the internet? Not so much. What you should be concerned with are the small groups out there that are committed, armed and do train regularly. And yes, they are out there. They aren't stupid (they understand and ruthlessly follow OPSEC), they aren't completely unskilled, and they do have experienced veterans acting as training cadre among them.  If you're not building your intel picture and fleshing out your battlespace you'r behind the powercurve.

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3 hours ago, The Resister said:

 

I know people that are skilled beyond any question, but we find ourselves searching for the ultimate answer just about every week:

 

1)  If we passed on tomorrow, none of us are currently passing our skills onto a younger generation.  Most of the people we know are into video games and trying to look and dress like hood rats.  Some are on drugs and / or have a criminal record.  You have no idea what it's like to find younger people to recruit in these times 

 

2)  Small groups have not been able to stop anything - even at the grass roots level.  How many times have you gotten physically involved when someone's constitutional Liberties were at stake? 

 

3)  Most militias see themselves ONLY as a defensive force - and an extension of Homeland (IN) Security and not active like our founding fathers were

 

4)  When, other than the freemen (i.e. the Bundys), have you witnessed citizens standing up against the government? 

 

Specifically I was addressing the folly of underestimating the threat.

Other than the Bundy's, well it's happened (although not totally successfully, at least six time I know of. Ruby Ridge, Waco, The Montana Freemen, Republic of Texas, And the Browns. Let's not forget The Battle of Athens however, which was a success.

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4 hours ago, The Resister said:

Your joking right.   Seriously you think by look for some custom job firearm that proves your right.   The psl isn't a ak.  Yes uses the similar gas system but isn't.   I'll run my budget build against anyone's over paid Daniel defense .  You didn't prove me wrong just your dumb enough to ask the car dealer to pay more. 

 

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palmettostatearmory.com

 

I know it's not as fancy as buying someone else's work but I figured maybe someone else might never of heard of them.   You can build anything you want or buy built.  As far glocks go I walk out the door with gen 4 small frames for 400 and larger for 450 to 500.

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Posted (edited)

Sorry for hopping in here trijicon doesn't make a.good rmr under 400$. The deplorable General builds them same palmettostatearmory guns.i know they'll send a bullet down range i built one for fun because of Megatron.but I wouldn't use it in any real fight good for practice and a extra gun to help arm unarmed buddies.but a good battle rifle is like a boat... bout another thousand...as for civil war it seems like most people who even care are arm chair  ninjas and won't do much  more then type....no disrespect to anyone here i don't mean anyone here...I like the topic..is there a difference between civil war and revolution because I imagined a revolution could make for a faster pace and less injurys....again the only way I could stand for a revolution or civil war is if i knew Americans wouldn't be killed because like planet of the apes.lol Americans don't kill Americans....isn't that why we hate the patriot act.between spying and held without trial. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ripcannon

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I stir up a lot of controversy on conservative Facebook groups by saying that I am tired of giving up liberty for more security or prosperity. These are things that the citizen must strive to achieve versus being handed down from those in government.

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Posted (edited)

Im with you there i don't want the police to help me or any welfare i just want nobody telling me what I can and can't do or what my kids can and can't do.

Edited by Ripcannon

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PSA? They seemed to be too good to be true so we built a mid length kit that was on clearance and hammered it with 5,000 rounds of cheap brown bear steel cased 62g with nothing more than a boresnake, brush scrub of the bolt and firing pin, and a gas system carb cleaner flushout followed by a super light coat of CLP  after every 1,000. All stoppages were due to faulty mags, and honestly we weren't counting but I'd say there was less than a dozen. The only  extraordinary measures we took during assembly was to lap the face of the upper as part of a class, and then it didn't really remove a lot of material (I've seen Colts that were way worse) . Afterward we had a little excessive extractor wear (expected) but otherwise the rifle performed above expectations.  If you buy a kit (or rifle) look for the FN barreled ones. And stay the hell away from the PTAC crap they sell.

 

Back on topic:

A REAL conflict on American soil is going to look like a conglomeration of Rwanda, Bosnia, Chechnya, Angola, etc. There will be so many different groups and factions vying for local dominance and resources it ain't going to be funny, and isn't going to look like any "GW" model to date. There will be no "normal", only atypical regional and isolated local tactical situations that will likely change often. In large urban areas areas where already well established, equipped, and trained criminal organizations exist (gangs, rogue militias, etc.) will most likely establish dominance after law enforcement and the national guard quit showing up. Remember, this ain't hadjiland, those guys live in the very communities that will be in the middle of a conflict and their families safety is going to be their #1 priority.

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Militias will be nothing but war lords in long term survival setting . 

 

I guess I didn't know resistance was like Saddam Hussein and needed gold plated aks to kill people faster.  I guess as far as take down on a glock....maybe work out and get stronger hands  or do something outside. 

 

We train we build.  My disciple: it is better to be a warrior tending to his garden than a gardener in a war.

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We should all read a free e-book called "Tactical Civics" by David Zuniga...he makes some excellent points in an excerpt here...

 

"From colonization until Lincoln’s war in 1861, America’s defense force was the Citizen Militia. Under the influence of powerful individuals in industry and banking, Lincoln created a paid, full-time national army, violating the Constitution and forcing constitutional Militia into extinction. For at least five generations, We The People and our State legislatures have abdicated our duties. Despite its 146 years in existence and now with five million members, the NRA has done nothing in this regard. For several years, Oath Keepers and III% United Patriots have built up local and Facebook groups in most of the 50 states to gear up, and to train (only very sporadically) as ‘unorganized militia’. As Dr. Vieira [author of a CD-ROM book entitled The Sword and Sovereignty: The Constitutional Principles of the Militia of the Several States] has explained for decades: there is no such thing, constitutionally, as the unorganized militia; in fact, according to the Second Amendment it is a contradiction in terms. Without officers appointed by the state (from among locals) and without the state providing for regular training, you do not have the Militia duty that We The People stipulate in Article I, Section 8, Clause 15 of the Constitution Incidentally, that is the only clause in the U.S. Constitution where We The People stipulate a duty for ourselves.

In that clause, we stipulate that We The People grant power to Congress to “provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections, and repel Invasions”. So when a citizen insurrection arises it is fellow citizens who are authorized to put it down, not a militarized police force or standing military. Clause 16 stipulates that Congress shall have power “...to provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining the Militia, and for governing such part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress.” In other words, state legislatures have a legal duty to appoint officers and provide training and logistics.

After decades of media propaganda, when most Americans hear the word militia they envision vigilantes or thugs. The Bundy family has made the stigma much worse. Most III% groups claim they are not Militia, and they are correct. In the Constitution we define Militia, as you read above. Playing soldier or Zombie Apocalypse in the woods – or prepping for disaster or economic collapse – may be necessary in case of an EMP attack or Great Depression II, but does not satisfy the clause 15 and 16 duties of constitutional Militia. Our constitutional duty is to protect our communities from lawless government, insurrection, or attack by any power. From age 18 to 64, all of us can perform some Militia service."

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And with regards to the points illustrated above concerning actual constitutional militias, we can draw some of the following observations (with an attitude of complete seriousness towards a militia performing its duty defined in the Constitution)

-The militia officers are the highest authority in an insurrection, during an invasion, and while executing the Laws of the Union...put there in authority by the State where action is needed. All peace officers have zero authority...all military has zero authority. The county Sheriff is the highest peace officer in the land outside of those times, and I would expect the Sheriff to be in the ranks of the militia as an armed citizen during the militia action.

-The militia is armed and supplied by that persons' state's legislatures. Funding for training is authorized by that state's legislatures.

-Citizens taking up arms against a militia, or resisting militia acts, are violating the Constitution on multiple fronts. These people would be viewed as treasonous combatants, but as persons, they still have protections afforded by the unalienable rights and Due Process. This is a very precarious position that "We The People" have not had to deal with in quite a long time.

 

In order to facilitate the points above, one would need some serious refacing of America. We would need to restore the Constitution to its original scope of power in accordance with the Founding Fathers' intentions. At this current stage of time, it would be like unrolling multiple layers of plastic wrap off of the center cardboard roll. Our Constitution would be the center cardboard roll, and the outer layers are the multiple conflicting points of legislation, legal misinterpretations, Congressional taxpayer and citizen power extortion schemes, and the unbalancing of federal powers that have been wrapped around the Constitution for the last 220 plus years. Nearly all people would say this is impossible, but it is not. There are people in America that have done the research and have activated a plan of action to restore our nation.

 

The Resister is correct that each party is controlling a narrative. To resolve our country's issues, one will have to come away from left and right thoughts of thinking, and return to a center focus on the Constitution. When one talks about seeing a civil war in this country, I expect the civil war to come from a vast multitude of persons and crime organizations involved in government whom have been perpetrating fraud, extortion, racketeering, and abuse of power towards the citizens for the last ten generations. These people have divided the citizens, engineered social distractions, perverted the foundation of our nation, and are making a healthy living doing all these things. These people will not leave willingly, will not give up, and will turn every last bit of their energy against those that try to pry their grip of power away from them.

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2 hours ago, Megatron said:

Militias will be nothing but war lords in long term survival setting . 

 

I guess I didn't know resistance was like Saddam Hussein and needed gold plated aks to kill people faster.  I guess as far as take down on a glock....maybe work out and get stronger hands  or do something outside. 

 

We train we build.  My disciple: it is better to be a warrior tending to his garden than a gardener in a war.

 

I like this a lot never heard it before.

 

as for my .02 i was always taught that it’s better to have a $400 gun and $600 of ammo then to have a $900 gun and $100 of ammo.

 

i have ar’s and an ak and if shtf and bug in time is over and its bug out time im grabbing ol trusty marlin 60 .22lr and an ammo can and a 1911 :D 

 

alas Going to war against neighboring groups and surviving is different

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13 minutes ago, The Resister said:

 

 

I have to disagree with you.  I 'd rather take a stock weapon ($400) and customize it little by little ending up with a  $600 weapon with what I personally need and $400 worth of ammunition.  At the going rate, $400 will get you about 1200 rounds of ammo.  

You sure can handle a 400 dollar peasants rifle or will it be to rough on your lordship hands.  

 

 

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i bought a budget rifle and when i was done getting it to where i wanted it i would of been better off buying a better gun.

 

I can't keep my hands out of things, i discovered a long time ago I'm better leaving things alone and investing into things that do what i want.

 

Ive ran group buys on here for DPMS for less than $400 and MP15s for less than $500, in an all out SHTF I would rather every single person in the neighbor hood have a DPMS then 1/2 of them have Colts. 

 

Yes i bought my son a Colt, it is a superior firearm it was an investment , i would have never made for my self

 

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lol you guys always crack me up , a forum full of Alpha males every conversation comes to fisticuffs :D 

 

Its ok to have different opinions thats why we are here talking about it , imagine how boring it would be if we all agreed on everything!!

 

I respect quality , But i also respect quantity and in a war .... even the spartans loss because of sheer numbers of men who were not even 1/4 the men they were

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Just now, The Resister said:

 

Not sure where you got your info from, but years ago, Colt began manufacturing their rifles so that milspec parts would not interchange with their lowers.  The name Colt does not mean better rifle.  It only means more expensive.

 

My info comes from shooting and handling various different types of AR15s from entry level to $3000 custom builds to entry level custom builds and when i held the colt the quality of it and the feel of it , i put it back but everything else failed in comparison to me so i bought it, is the the best gun in the store ? couldn't tell you but something felt right with it and so far so good and yes it was pricy 

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I only just a month ago finally let go of my colt for a dpmsish .308 way better chit for it...I like um both alot but colts barrels are great good way to start your boy out fixer! but we all most likely agree we pay for the name more on any colt.

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Just now, The Resister said:

 

You'll have to come out our way the next time there's an Appleseed shoot.  I know people that have builds that meet / exceed Navy SEAL standards.  You can only get so good in steel and aluminum.  

 

Thanks , I'm sure there are way better stuff than i got, but equipment will only get you do far. My Son and I have Plinking wars all the time , it was always his Ruger vs My Marlin they were both 22's , one day the little bastard damn near beat me ...

 

I went and bought a Browning T bolt .17hmr and just smoked his ass over and over , he got mad so we went and bought him a Ruger .17hmr

 

He freaking out shot me , over and over !!

 

I found a JM marlin .17hmr in another state and got it and sold the browning and now i can hang with him :D

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