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Marxist masquerading as militia

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I agree that the state can call up the militia and/or unorganized militia and it becomes the organized militia under the state for those that will answer that call.  I don't agree that the state is the sole determination of the organized militia though, any group of citizens that come together to train and drill on a regular basis is also an organized militia.  Some states have made citizen run militia groups illegal.  Some state governments are just as bad as the federal government or in cahoots with them in usurping individual citizen''s rights and freedoms.  Such would prefer to turn them into privileges they control,  often with intent to infringe or take away eventually.   

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On 9/17/2018 at 2:43 PM, Let_Freedom_Ring said:

I don't agree that the state is the sole determination of the organized militia though, any group of citizens that come together to train and drill on a regular basis is also an organized militia. 

This is were we disagree. The state/local government has always been the purveyor of the organized militia. Groups of citizens getting together and training/drilling on a regular basis isn't necessarily against the law, yet some things that group does can be construed as against the law, however, they are not an "organized militia" in any sense of the word. Your group can call themselves anything they want, they are looked at as a group/club by the state, not a legal or constitutional militia as some infer.

 

On 9/17/2018 at 2:43 PM, Let_Freedom_Ring said:

Some states have made citizen run militia groups illegal.  Some state governments are just as bad as the federal government or in cahoots with them in usurping individual citizen''s rights and freedoms.  Such would prefer to turn them into privileges they control,  often with intent to infringe or take away eventually. 

They made them illegal based on recognized Court Opinions.  You don't have a right or a freedom to create a citizen/private militia.

 

As to rights and freedoms, every right/freedom can be limited or taken, it is accepted simply by living in a society.

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Came across this today:

 

https://www.cnn.com/2018/11/07/opinions/border-state-governors-should-stop-militias-mccord/index.html

 

Quote

The governors of the border states do not have to sit idly by while groups like the Minutemen deploy to the border with high-powered assault rifles, aerial drones, and night-vision goggles. These governors have legal tools in their arsenal to prevent this. Every state that borders Mexico, including Texas (and 48 of all 50 states), has a provision in its state constitution that requires the military to be at all times subordinate to the civil authority. That means private, unregulated and unauthorized militias -- operating wholly outside public accountability -- are prohibited by state law. In addition, both Texas and Arizona have criminal statutes barring private armed militias, while California and New Mexico ban private paramilitary activity.

 

The border state governors can start by making public statements that the deployment of private militias to their states is both illegal and unwelcome. They can send letters warning the leaders and organizers of these militia groups, such as Gilchrist and McGauley, that their members will be requested to cease and desist any military deployments in their states, and if the members persist, they will face legal action. And the governors can make it clear that state law enforcement authorities will enforce the criminal laws that prohibit armed private militia activity.

Whats your opinions?

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I see a lot of links from Oath Keepers about it, nothing from any local news agency or anything else. I only found where Oath Keepers donated a water purifying machine to help victims.

 

The State of Texas didn't ask any militia for help, all I found was a call to arms by militias themselves to go to the border. :SHRUG:

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On ‎8‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 9:27 PM, Megatron said:

A fear I consider is the idea that you take Marxist types who pretend to be Patriots.   They even make social media accounts to play the role. All to disguise themselves for the bigger event.   

 

They attack a church or mall or something larger.   They work as a fire team. They make the attack like the Beslan school event.  Killing and using IEDs to nail responders.  

 

Now what happens when the smoke clears.   It looks like 3 percenters and Joe six pack Republican militia members did the attack.  The results will be gun control like no other and more lock down of freedoms.   Militias will be ousted.

 

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On 12/13/2018 at 8:21 PM, WMD said:

I see a lot of links from Oath Keepers about it, nothing from any local news agency or anything else. I only found where Oath Keepers donated a water purifying machine to help victims.

 

The State of Texas didn't ask any militia for help, all I found was a call to arms by militias themselves to go to the border. :SHRUG:

that is pretty much what the militias are about. we act independently on a volunteer basis to help our communities. as we are not government run, we cannot be "called upon." ultimately it isnt our responsibility to drop everything in life to help everyone with every little thing. unlike military fire ems and police services, we arent getting paid to help people so when we do it, it means more than just showing up for a pay check. we have financial responsibilities outside of providing aide to our communities. 

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12 hours ago, Mark Schroeder said:

that is pretty much what the militias are about. we act independently on a volunteer basis to help our communities. as we are not government run, we cannot be "called upon." ultimately it isnt our responsibility to drop everything in life to help everyone with every little thing. unlike military fire ems and police services, we arent getting paid to help people so when we do it, it means more than just showing up for a pay check. we have financial responsibilities outside of providing aide to our communities. 

I'm fully aware of how private militias operate and work which is why I posted the links I did in my previous posts. I'm against public displays of private militias, you get opened up too much to scrutiny by all who are looking for and watching for public displays. When private militias take things into their own hands, it usually ends in failure for them, people either go to jail or die in most instances. I prefer to fly low and stay below radar, I take care of my own first and foremost. Paintball was a great training tool, out in the open and no one the wiser, large group of folks got hands on training with live fire. We did this at paintball fields and up in the woods. Park Ranger stopped by once and asked what we were doing, told him just a bunch of guys up here having fun, they never bothered us again.

Edited by WMD

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invisible is a good image...I hate seeing public display's of grown up soldier  and redneck crusaders not that I wouldn't mind playing every now and again.haha...I really encourage anyone that wants to protest to join a 3%er group,,, for just that.... and state militia for just that. ..if that makes any sense...I'd read a forum on this topic because I've been spit at for my view.

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1 hour ago, WMD said:

I'm fully aware of how private militias operate and work which is why I posted the links I did in my previous posts. I'm against public displays of private militias, you get opened up too much to scrutiny by all who are looking for and watching for public displays. When private militias take things into their own hands, it usually ends in failure for them, people either go to jail or die in most instances. I prefer to fly low and stay below radar, I take care of my own first and foremost. Paintball was a great training tool, out in the open and no one the wiser, large group of folks got hands on training with live fire. We did this at paintball fields and up in the woods. Park Ranger stopped by once and asked what we were doing, told him just a bunch of guys up here having fun, they never bothered us again.

No good has ever come from any militia group opening themselves up to scrutiny by the media.  They will find a way to make you look bad or crazy every time.  Maintain OPSEC (Operations Security) at all times.  "Loose Lips, Sink Ships".

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5 minutes ago, Let_Freedom_Ring said:

No good has ever come from any militia group opening themselves up to scrutiny by the media.  They will find a way to make you look bad or crazy every time.  Maintain OPSEC (Operations Security) at all times.  "Loose Lips, Sink Ships".

It is nice, in my humble opinion, to maybe have one's III%er t-shirt on, while volunteering one's time in a food line, serving food, volunteering to cut the grass for the elderly, hanging out with veterans at your locat VA and such. Showing love for your community and letting them know that you are there for them as well. 

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35 minutes ago, Sandlapper said:

It is nice, in my humble opinion, to maybe have one's III%er t-shirt on, while volunteering one's time in a food line, serving food, volunteering to cut the grass for the elderly, hanging out with veterans at your locat VA and such. Showing love for your community and letting them know that you are there for them as well. 

Or even a military branch you may have served in , their shirt on. Even a shirt that simply has your town/city name on it would be good. Best yet, simply volunteering  to help.

Edited by WMD

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2 hours ago, Sandlapper said:

It is nice, in my humble opinion, to maybe have one's III%er t-shirt on, while volunteering one's time in a food line, serving food, volunteering to cut the grass for the elderly, hanging out with veterans at your local VA and such. Showing love for your community and letting them know that you are there for them as well. 

I agree, I'm talking about doing interviews with media about your militia group.

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I think it would be wise to let your local law enforcement and community know your militia and it's intent so they know just who to turn to and trust and these wack job's actions won't reflect on your group.

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5 hours ago, KillBird said:

I think it would be wise to let your local law enforcement and community know your militia and it's intent so they know just who to turn to and trust and these wack job's actions won't reflect on your group.

 

Agreed... with this understanding.  The militia has suffered from "bad press" for over twenty years now, and public perception can be quite negative.  Also note, your local Police Dept. is there to ENFORCE the law (as directed by the Mayor, City Council etc.): not to serve and protect the people.  The SCOTUS has confirmed that they have no obligation to protect anyone.  Gen. Mike Flynn trusted the "police" (FBI) and they betrayed him... it could happen to your group.  Same goes for the Sheriff of your county.  He, however, is elected by the people and MAY be more in tune with them. 

 

Before disclosing to any law enforcement agency, much of anything about your group, check to make sure they really, truly support the Constitution and won't "inform" on you, put you under surveillance, or take you in to custody for exercising your civil rights.  My first contact would probably be with the Sheriff, without much concern for the local police.

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27 minutes ago, John Last said:

 

Agreed... with this understanding.  The militia has suffered from "bad press" for over twenty years now, and public perception can be quite negative.  Also note, your local Police Dept. is there to ENFORCE the law (as directed by the Mayor, City Council etc.): not to serve and protect the people.  The SCOTUS has confirmed that they have no obligation to protect anyone.  Gen. Mike Flynn trusted the "police" (FBI) and they betrayed him... it could happen to your group.  Same goes for the Sheriff of your county.  He, however, is elected by the people and MAY be more in tune with them. 

 

Before disclosing to any law enforcement agency, much of anything about your group, check to make sure they really, truly support the Constitution and won't "inform" on you, put you under surveillance, or take you in to custody for exercising your civil rights.  My first contact would probably be with the Sheriff, without much concern for the local police.

John Last and KillBird, very good points.

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I agree with you Last John I tend to trust the sheriff department as according to the constitution they are the only recognized law enforcement and most that I have known around here support and uphold the constitution.

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Per the original subject matter:  I think it would be quite difficult for a Marxist group to masquerade as a Patriot Militia group.  Granted, the media would love to have such a story to spin.  The biggest challenge is the existence of social media - we already get enough of the crazy alt-right white guy mass murders such and such a group so ban guns headlines... that are pushed until discovered it doesn't fit the narrative.  It's hard to hide your views and motivations in this day and age if you have ever had any involvement with any platform.  Doxxing is already prevalent enough... people can't hide their motives once documented and exposed on video in this day and age.

 

The second challenge is that Militia's by nature are an investment so to speak.  Anyone can go down to the surplus store and pick up some UCP or Woodland and dress the part in a minimalist fashion.  Most Militia's however have rifles, plate carriers, body armor, assault packs, and other markers of training and competency.  While liberal activists are not short on cash... the risk/reward benefit in this scenario is prohibitive.  If they get exposed as posing as right wing activists... it hurts them more than it helps them.  Not saying it can't or won't ever happen.  Antifa is already the private 'visible' militia of the left... they're getting the job done without posing as right wing militia groups - and for the most part without guns.  Hell, they can burn down businesses with little or no consequence.  The Left has the Media and street level thugs to get the job done for now.  They only need to keep demonizing the notion of citizens owning firearms and training to use them.  They have no reason as of yet to change their game plan.  Again, not saying it can't or won't happen.  I don't see a need for them to do so yet.  

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On 1/25/2019 at 4:35 PM, RevRifleman said:

Per the original subject matter:  I think it would be quite difficult for a Marxist group to masquerade as a Patriot Militia group.  Granted, the media would love to have such a story to spin.  The biggest challenge is the existence of social media - we already get enough of the crazy alt-right white guy mass murders such and such a group so ban guns headlines... that are pushed until discovered it doesn't fit the narrative.  It's hard to hide your views and motivations in this day and age if you have ever had any involvement with any platform.  Doxxing is already prevalent enough... people can't hide their motives once documented and exposed on video in this day and age.

 

The second challenge is that Militia's by nature are an investment so to speak.  Anyone can go down to the surplus store and pick up some UCP or Woodland and dress the part in a minimalist fashion.  Most Militia's however have rifles, plate carriers, body armor, assault packs, and other markers of training and competency.  While liberal activists are not short on cash... the risk/reward benefit in this scenario is prohibitive.  If they get exposed as posing as right wing activists... it hurts them more than it helps them.  Not saying it can't or won't ever happen.  Antifa is already the private 'visible' militia of the left... they're getting the job done without posing as right wing militia groups - and for the most part without guns.  Hell, they can burn down businesses with little or no consequence.  The Left has the Media and street level thugs to get the job done for now.  They only need to keep demonizing the notion of citizens owning firearms and training to use them.  They have no reason as of yet to change their game plan.  Again, not saying it can't or won't happen.  I don't see a need for them to do so yet.  

look what the media did with timothy mcveigh and the militia group in MN I think it was

 

IMHO he was a spy that was looking to use the militia group as a patsy

 

I say this was an inside job when it comes to the OK city bombing

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4 hours ago, VTConcernedCitizen said:

look what the media did with timothy mcveigh and the militia group in MN I think it was

 

IMHO he was a spy that was looking to use the militia group as a patsy

 

I say this was an inside job when it comes to the OK city bombing

Not saying they don't have the option on the table.  But, they have better options available to them that have just as big of an impact if not greater.  Why go after the Militia when your goal is taking the guns? Creating false militia groups to carry out some nefarious plot is more costly and time consuming than finding a lone wolf actor to carry out a tragic event.  It demonizes a group that most Americans aren't concerned about, nor does it seem like something that could effect them in their daily lives.  Lone wolves - mentally ill people being able to get their hands on guns easily on the other hand scares people.  Your neighbor probably isn't in the militia.  But, he might be crazy.  The effort is significantly less and the impact is even better.  Bump stock ban was in direct relation to Las Vegas.  Prior that, most people had no idea that bump stocks were even a thing.  Actions carried out by lone wolf types have had more of an impact on gun legislation than probably anything else. 

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11 hours ago, RevRifleman said:

Not saying they don't have the option on the table.  But, they have better options available to them that have just as big of an impact if not greater.  Why go after the Militia when your goal is taking the guns? Creating false militia groups to carry out some nefarious plot is more costly and time consuming than finding a lone wolf actor to carry out a tragic event.  It demonizes a group that most Americans aren't concerned about, nor does it seem like something that could effect them in their daily lives.  Lone wolves - mentally ill people being able to get their hands on guns easily on the other hand scares people.  Your neighbor probably isn't in the militia.  But, he might be crazy.  The effort is significantly less and the impact is even better.  Bump stock ban was in direct relation to Las Vegas.  Prior that, most people had no idea that bump stocks were even a thing.  Actions carried out by lone wolf types have had more of an impact on gun legislation than probably anything else. 

exactly its not a gun control issue in society we face, its a mental health panademic

look at the prison systems, its thought that about 80% of all inmates have a disorder

they fall through the cracks of the system and end up in jail

they are a product of society

heaven forbid we have folks that dont even know their own gender.... off soapboax

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