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I, for one, would love a precise answer to that question!  Is there a point at which it becomes morally required that we exercise our 2A rights?  Is it Red Flag laws?  Is it enhanced background checks?  Is it prohibition of AR style rifles?  Remember, all these acts will be cloaked in "law", with the full weight of the "government" (police, FBI etc.) behind it.

 

Without some kind of consensus, resistance will be pointless.  A unit (average 6-8 men) here or there simply won't be effective; will be easily overwhelmed and branded as nut-jobs.

 

Is it even possible to get a "bottom line; this far and no further" universally accepted position on when enough is enough?

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I understand the frustration and feel it also but a clear starting point simply can't be defined without clairvoyance, it's a process of social momentum.  How did the Revolutionary War start, how did the Civil War start, the "Second Civil or Second Revolutionary War" will start in similar manner.  As a group and nation if the time is right and it becomes needed as the last resort, you won't be able to stop it. What is really important is what we, you and I as individuals do in the meantime.  I have decided that I am not going to register any of my personal property nor am I going to turn in or allow taken from me anything I have already legally obtained without resisting fully to the best of my ability (you are welcome to interpret this statement as you will but I will not get more specific on here) .  #DONOTCOMPLY and force them to play their hand and make the first move.  Then if the lid blows off and the Second Civil War or Second Revolutionary War erupts, you will be ready to heed the call to duty.

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Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Claw Hammer said:

How would 6 to 8 men be ineffective 

Six-eight men can be very effective, depending upon the mission.  Perhaps I should have been more clear: 6-8 men against the police dept., backed up by the Sheriff's office, and State Troopers (maybe even national guard with MRAMs, Apache choppers etc.) is a pretty lopsided match.  I guess my point was that unless there's "grass roots" resistance, isolated groups won't be able to accomplish much.  I think Let Freedom Ring may have the answer;  sentiment has to grow and grow, until the lid blows off.  For example: the Boston Massacre (1770), the Tea Party (1773), Lexington and Concord (1775).

Edited by John Last

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i like to think of it this way. Sure, if this whole thing was done by only 8 guys, we wouldn't get very far, but if you had just 8 guys going out and starting shit somewhere and another 8 guys doing stuff somewhere else, i think that is a recipe for victory. Once people see that those small groups are hard to put down, we will gain more support. So, can 8 guys win it all, no, but they can be what draws enough support to have it won.

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13 hours ago, Let_Freedom_Ring said:

I understand the frustration and feel it also but a clear starting point simply can't be defined without clairvoyance, it's a process of social momentum.  How did the Revolutionary War start, how did the Civil War start, the "Second Civil or Second Revolutionary War" will start in similar manner.  As a group and nation if the time is right and it becomes needed as the last resort, you won't be able to stop it. What is really important is what we, you and I as individuals do in the meantime.  I have decided that I am not going to register any of my personal property nor am I going to turn in or allow taken from me anything I have already legally obtained without resisting fully to the best of my ability (you are welcome to interpret this statement as you will but I will not get more specific on here) .  #DONOTCOMPLY and force them to play their hand and make the first move.  Then if the lid blows off and the Second Civil War or Second Revolutionary War erupts, you will be ready to heed the call to duty.

I agree with the end of your statement. The only way we can justify violence is in a defensive scenario. We simply have to make sure that we have plenty to choose from by refusing to work with them when it comes to this sorta thing. I feel like communities are going to have to start forming quick reaction forces. This is because i feel most ares would  not dare risk any overt form of confiscation, but will rely on red flag style confiscation. Just a thought. 

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15 hours ago, John Last said:

Six-eight men can be very effective, depending upon the mission.  Perhaps I should have been more clear: 6-8 men against the police dept., backed up by the Sheriff's office, and State Troopers (maybe even national guard with MRAMs, Apache choppers etc.) is a pretty lopsided match.  I guess my point was that unless there's "grass roots" resistance, isolated groups won't be able to accomplish much.  I think Let Freedom Ring may have the answer;  sentiment has to grow and grow, until the lid blows off.  For example: the Boston Massacre (1770), the Tea Party (1773), Lexington and Concord (1775).

Well the point wouldn't be to go toe to toe with front line troops.  The 5 to 8 would operate like small teams with a special forces like attitude.  You blend in with the community and hit targets that cause chaos and destroy morale.

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5 hours ago, Claw Hammer said:

Well the point wouldn't be to go toe to toe with front line troops.  The 5 to 8 would operate like small teams with a special forces like attitude.  You blend in with the community and hit targets that cause chaos and destroy morale.

Okay.

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1 hour ago, Claw Hammer said:

So you expected a ground war fighting thousands In some epic ww2 fight 

as unrealistic as it is, you can at least concede it is awesome to think about. 

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6 minutes ago, young patriot said:

as unrealistic as it is, you can at least concede it is awesome to think about. 

Eh to many people watching movies.   Its going be hard enough in small teams.   

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11 hours ago, Claw Hammer said:

Eh to many people watching movies.   Its going be hard enough in small teams.   

I know, it is important to differentiate fact from fiction, but i was saying it is at least a satisfying thought. Though i am aware that a platoon is likely the biggest unit size that can go undetected in most areas. Though, if you think about it, a platoon simply means two or three squads that can individually cause a raucous. The platoon would only fully assemble when a bigger mission had to be done, like a raid, then go their separate ways. 

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2 hours ago, young patriot said:

I know, it is important to differentiate fact from fiction, but i was saying it is at least a satisfying thought. Though i am aware that a platoon is likely the biggest unit size that can go undetected in most areas. Though, if you think about it, a platoon simply means two or three squads that can individually cause a raucous. The platoon would only fully assemble when a bigger mission had to be done, like a raid, then go their separate ways. 

30 to 50 people is way to many.  Nobody can even get half that to show up and train monthly now.

 

5 to 8 man times with no leader doing whatever they need is about it.  You keep it small so you don't have OPEC issues.  

 

Trained together you can be incredibly powerful if you can get logistics 

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1 hour ago, Claw Hammer said:

30 to 50 people is way to many.  Nobody can even get half that to show up and train monthly now.

 

5 to 8 man times with no leader doing whatever they need is about it.  You keep it small so you don't have OPEC issues.  

 

Trained together you can be incredibly powerful if you can get logistics 

i was leaning more towards 20 or 30. But, i see what you mean. 

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34 minutes ago, young patriot said:

i was leaning more towards 20 or 30. But, i see what you mean. 

20 to 30 is huge if you think about it.  I don't know or a single group that has it.  My idea would be take that 30 and either make five six man teams or three ten man teams.

 

Training could be shared but nothing else and not recommend to have a leader.  If one group is caught they have very little information on the others

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In regards to numbers for effective operations as a Militia - one only needs to look at any of the major 'team' sport that exist out there.  Not full roster size - but how many are on the field playing.

 

Baseball - 9 players per team

Football - 11 players per team

Basketball - 5 players per team

Hockey - 6 players per team

Soccer - 11 players per team

Lacrosse - 10 players per team

 

The more players you have, the harder it is to plan, communicate, and execute action cooperatively on the field.  

 

Obviously, Militia groups could easily have hundreds or thousands of members.  But, for effective training and unit cohesion you need to divide that up into smaller groups with appointed leadership.  The mission may call for 20 or 30 guys.  By establishing a chain of command with the leadership you can make it work.  

 

The biggest challenge I see happening for Militia's is this... it isn't the Military.  There has to be an emphasis on relationship rather than authority for the sake of authority.  The Military understands the importance of relationship as well... but, it also has the hammer it can drop on you.  Militia's don't have the same hammer and by their very nature cannot have that same hammer.  You aren't enlisted under a contract with legal threats and consequences in a Militia.  Smaller groups are more likely to hold together under stress than larger groups where power, pecking order, and 'size' measuring are more likely to take place.  

 

 

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