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Swamp Fox

Law Enforcement and the Criminal Justice System

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As a leader you have many things to understand about the criminal justice system and how best to avoid it.  You need to know when to cut off/dis-own a member that has been arrested or to refer a members name who has proven themselves to be a radical.  You may also want to consider having a sheriff observer to create a relationship with the department.  I would not trust a department that is not supervised by a non-elected representative.

 

Here are a couple stories that I posted on another thread and then some legal statements.  Always be careful and alert.

 

What criteria makes a person(membership) to be avoided? I have a friend that has a felony. A cop lied at the trial and forced him to take the plea bargain Felony assault was part of the mandatory charges of the plea bargain. This friend has over 10 years in the Army. His experience has been mostly combat arms but also includes combat medic and Quartermaster. He was a staff sergeant. Now if you did not know this person and just saw the felony and resume would you exclude him from membership?

When considering a person, you have to take into consideration what the persons character is like. Do they have morals? How old is the felony? Have you talked to references? It isn't always what is on paper that is important.

Don't just take a background check as written in stone.  When deciding on memberships to those with a felony you need to consider their training and life experiences. There is a lot of jobs within the militia that the person could do. Hell, they could still be on a combat team they would just have to simulate the weapon in current times. Once action happens there is going to be a lot of rifles laying on the ground without owners ready to be picked up by new owners.

 
When I was a correction officer there was a saying.  "The only difference between you and me, is that you got caught and I didn't."  Remember that, there is a lot of shady people out there that never got caught but yet you will welcome open arms.
 
 

When I was a correction officer I heard a lot of bullshit stories about the criminal justice system.  I actually had an incident where I had a self defense fight in a city.  It was an ex's boyfriend(long story). 

 

He broke a beer bottle over my head and I defended myself until he fell down several times and then ran away(later went to the hospital).  I left the area and went home.  Later I was arrested at gun point by the Michigan State Police(He lied and had a story).  I was transported back to that city and then they tried to interrogate me.  After telling them several times I want an attorney I finally told them to go get fucked.  I aint saying shit until I talk to an attorney.  They(6 officers) took me to the rear and beat the snot out of me.  I fought back for a minute and did pretty good until one of them got behind of me and punched me at the base of the skull where the neck meets.  That put me down.  When I bonded out I had two black eyes, a cut from ear to ear.  I had bruised all over my body.  There were several boot imprint bruises on my back.

 

All the way thru the court system I was considered guilty until I finally made it to trial.  My attorney was a huntress and with my testimony we were kicking their ass.  The best part was when she caught the dirt bag lying on the stand.  The judge called the witch prosecutor and my attorney to the bench.  He was like what is wrong with you.  Your going to loose this case, whey didn't you plea bargain? A recess was called.  She told my attorney that she would offer aggravated assault(I think).  What ever it was I was told it was a high misdemeanor that is considered the same as a felony.  I told my attorney to tell her to take it as shove it up her ass.  I was still a correction officer at the time and would of ruined me.

 

We finally got to the point the jury was ready.  We sat down and a cop stands behind me.  Minute later another cop comes out and another and they are standing behind me.  My attorney looks at me and says that isn't normal.  I got a not guilty verdict and the cops disapeer.  The prosecutor witch looks at me and is crying.  I just gave her an evil stare until my attorney got my attention.  It cost me over $10,000. in early 2004 money because I had to defend myself and a person lied.

 

I got over hating cops but I seriously hate prosecutors to this day.  I'll be civil and polite but Never trust a cop.  They will gather information from you until they have a case.  And never trust the Criminal Justice System.  If you don't fight for you no one will.  By the way the majority of prisoners have had court appointed attorneys.

 

As a militia leader when dealing with any law enforcement keep it professional and polite.  When in doubt tell them you no longer want to speak and you want to speak to your attorney for counsel.

 

Here is some legal information for dealing with an incident:

Check out this video from J.J. of Reality Survival, What he would do after a self defense shooting.

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5HoyIGy7yM8

 

In the video he gives an example of what you should say to the police and I really like it. Instead of just lawyering up you give a small explanation and show that you will cooperate while lawyering up.

 

I would like to speak to an attorney before I provide a written statement or answer any questions. But I want you to know that I am the victim of this crime and that I was afraid for my life. I felt that if I did not defend myself the criminal was going to kill me. I will fully cooperate with your investigation and I will sign the complaint against the criminal. But because the issue is so serious I would like to consult with an attorney before answering any additional questions.”

 

Here is some additional advice.

 

As soon as you stopped the threat, kick the criminals weapon away from him and do not touch. You do not want your prints on it. When the scene is safe, make a brief video and pictures of the scene, do not speak while you are filming, your attorney may want to use your video in court. If there is a serious fact that should be pointed out then make a very quick secondary video. Holster your weapon when officers arrive to show you are not the threat. Show arriving officers any evidence on scene. Any casualties and if you received any wounds. Also point out any surveillance cameras in the area(some cameras are on a loop and if you do not remove the video it may get recorded over). Point out any witnesses that saw the incident happen. If anybody tries to leave before the police arrive ask them to stay. If they still insist on leaving then take a picture of them and/or their license plate number.

 

Forward text/email copies of your pictures and videos to another source that law enforcement cannot immediately seize like an email account that is not accessible from your phone for safe keeping. Your attorney would be a very good recipient. Keep your phone password protected and do not release your password until you speak to your attorney. Get the names of reporting officers, badge numbers and the report number of the incident for your attorney.

 

Somewhere in the process after the scene is safe you will want to provide first aid to other victims and the criminal or get a bystander(s) to assist you in rendering aid. Be careful that evidence will not be disturbed or destroyed. When the criminal or their family member tries to sue you for shooting him or her it will look better that you provided aid after you defended yourself from being attacked. Keep your mouth shut except to your spouse or your attorney. There is no statue of limitations for murder.

 

Something to consider is that 911 will try to keep you on the line until the cops get there. Either do your quick video before you call or politely but firmly tell them you have to go and hang up on them.

 

Watch your words and actions. Police are trained in interrogation techniques and will do everything in there power to speak to you about the incident and will change wording to try to trip you up and to compare your responses. There is nothing wrong with you standing by your decision to remain silent until you speak to your attorney. You may be shamed or made to feel guilty. You have a legal right to remain silent, hold your ground, do it firmly but with respect.

 

Pocket sized print off, laminate and put in your wallet/purse, vehicle, bedroom, near your most widely used exterior door. Basically put it where you will have access to it. Below is the statement and an abbreviated to do list. Familiarize yourself with the above to do list so you can better relate it to the abbreviated list.

 

Front

I would like to speak to an attorney before

I provide a written statement or answer any

questions. But I want you to know that I am

the victim of this crime and that I was afraid

for my life. I felt that if I did not defend myself

the criminal was going to kill me. I will fully

cooperate with your investigation and I will sign

the complaint against the criminal. But because

the issue is so serious I would like to consult with

an attorney before answering any additional

questions.”

 

 

Back

Stop the threat, kick the criminals weapon away

from him and do not touch. When scene is safe,

make a brief video and pictures of the scene

for your attorney. Forward email/text to 3rd party.

Render 1st Aid to assailant/victims. Show officers

evidence on scene. Any casualties and if you

received wounds. Point out any surveillance

cameras and any witnesses If witness leave take a

picture of them/plate number. Get names of

officers/badge# and the incident report number

for attorney. Watch your words and actions.

Watch for interrogation techniques Stand by

your decision to remain silent until you speak to

your attorney. You have a legal right to remain

silent, hold your ground, do it firmly but with

respect.

 

 

 

Try to video tape this statement and reactions.

  1. I do not consent to searches.

  2. I am not speaking to you or answering any questions and I want to speak to an attorney.

  3. I do not agree to stay here with you for any reason. Are you detaining me or am I free to go?

 

Michigan SELF-DEFENSE ACT (EXCERPT) Act 309 of 2006

780.972 Use of deadly force by individual not engaged in commission of crime; conditions. Sec. 2. (1) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses deadly force may use deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if either of the following applies: (a) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent death of or imminent great bodily harm to himself or herself or to another individual. (b) The individual honestly and reasonably believes that the use of deadly force is necessary to prevent the imminent sexual assault of himself or herself or of another individual. (2) An individual who has not or is not engaged in the commission of a crime at the time he or she uses force other than deadly force may use force other than deadly force against another individual anywhere he or she has the legal right to be with no duty to retreat if he or she honestly and reasonably believes that the use of that force is necessary to defend himself or herself or another individual from the imminent unlawful use of force by another individual. History: 2006, Act 309, Eff. Oct. 1, 2006.

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This seems like sensible advice.

 

Like any organization with tens of thousands of members, the police have some saints and some sinners and a lot of people in between.  They deal with the worst of the public and probably get a bit cynical and jaded. Thre is a whole industry devoted to screaming about police brutality and trying to get policemen in trouble, and trying to get money in 'compensation' from the system.

 

And never forget they -- like the military -- are a nationalized industry.

 

That said, we had better have a strong military and a strong police force, and the militia movement should be seen as friendly and supportive of both, and should get as close to both as possible: i.e. should have as much personal contact with the serving military and serving police officers as possible.

 

It's the Left and the America-haters who want to undermine the police (and military). 

 

Here's a legal question I think someone who is qualified should speak about:  in a violent riot, where a militia unit (or others) are protecting homes and businesses ... and you are faced with a mob, perhaps one from which shots are coming -- see the YouTube videos of what Korean shop owners faced during the Rodney King riots -- what is your legal standing if you return fire, and hit someone? Or, if a mob is advancing, and you do the same?

 

You can be sure that there are Leftist lawyers who would love to crucify anyone who defends their home and business. But what is the legal situation?  I'm talking about a situation where the mob is several hundred feet away, not an immediate threat to life.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Doug1943 said:

This seems like sensible advice.

 

Like any organization with tens of thousands of members, the police have some saints and some sinners and a lot of people in between.  They deal with the worst of the public and probably get a bit cynical and jaded. Thre is a whole industry devoted to screaming about police brutality and trying to get policemen in trouble, and trying to get money in 'compensation' from the system.

 

And never forget they -- like the military -- are a nationalized industry.

 

That said, we had better have a strong military and a strong police force, and the militia movement should be seen as friendly and supportive of both, and should get as close to both as possible: i.e. should have as much personal contact with the serving military and serving police officers as possible.

 

It's the Left and the America-haters who want to undermine the police (and military). 

 

Here's a legal question I think someone who is qualified should speak about:  in a violent riot, where a militia unit (or others) are protecting homes and businesses ... and you are faced with a mob, perhaps one from which shots are coming -- see the YouTube videos of what Korean shop owners faced during the Rodney King riots -- what is your legal standing if you return fire, and hit someone? Or, if a mob is advancing, and you do the same?

 

You can be sure that there are Leftist lawyers who would love to crucify anyone who defends their home and business. But what is the legal situation?  I'm talking about a situation where the mob is several hundred feet away, not an immediate threat to life.

 

 

Depends on the state. If it’s a state that has a duty to retreat then you are probably going to be toasted.

if not then it’s going to fall under the argument  of would an average person feel justified in this action?

Thats where it would get tricky.

 

As stated the mob isn’t a current threat but one would most likely have to make a reasonable argument of why they believed this mob would become a threat to them in the immediate future. 

It would most likely go to trial because it’s not an issue we come across often.

 

Difficult to say because it’s extremely circumstantial. 

 

A man man with a bat 50 feet away isn’t an imminent threat but might be able to argue the same distance with a group of 50 people might be different. 

 

 

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I suppose at the end of the day, it all comes down to who you've got on the jury.

This good fellow [   https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Horn_shooting_controversy ] did a salutary job of social cleansing, but he would probably have been sent to prison if he had done it in California instead of Texas.

 

We need to get all the legal angles down in print for everyone to be familiar with.  There must be some lawyers who are sympathetic to the militia movement who could sum up the legalities.

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