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Were the founding fathers liberals?

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With all these democrats and liberal acting like they do..entitled, disrespectful, emotional and immoral.. for example the recent grand standing on climate change and other topics they act like our country is 100% cruel and oppressive... they are not faking it... these people really do feel this way.

So we should reflect back on history and all the “oppressive movements” that were hammered into our brains in school ... don't you wonder what is and what is not real?

Our history may be skewed.. perhaps all the attention these "oppressed" got in the past was the exact same as it is 
today.

 

Think about it... the Pink Pussy Hat of femininazis marching on Washington DC ..is the equivalent of Rosa Parks not wanting to sit in the back of the bus. Is it all the same? Ok it may not be as wide spread but isn't it the same in ways?

 

all in all it's just a small group of un happy people that try to make as much noise as they can when everyone else says they should shut up... fall in line and be a productive member of society.

This really goes for a lot of historical events. from the Revolutionary War to Kent State.

 

Were the founding fathers liberals?

Where is the line drawn?

 

It's widely known that I'm about as far right as someone can get however i supported a liberal political Ksenia Sobchak - READ MORE ABOUT HER

 

I guess sometimes they are right and sometimes they are not? Maybe its only oppressive based on what side of the fence you are on... 

One mans terrorist is another mans freedom fighter

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Most of my voting life was spent registered as an Independent.  It was only in 2016 that I bumped over to the Republican party.  I've since moved back to Independent.  I am, however, politically conservative both socially and economically. I have flirtations with Libertarianism... I like both Ron Paul and Rand Paul.  I voted for Bob Barr.  However, Libertarianism is a rather broad political platform and it has glaring deficiencies that tend to go unnoticed - it's too idealistic and assumes people are better natured than they really are.  

 

I've found myself flirting with Propertarianism these days.  I have concerns with this as well.  The reality is that in this life... perfection will never be attained.  

 

All of that being said... were the Founders Liberal?  

 

I don't think they thought in terms of liberal or conservative the way we do today.  Even if we were to try and box them in with our current terminology... to paint them all as liberal would be odd given that the Founding Fathers weren't all in perfect agreement on many matters.

 

I try *and fail* to not use the term liberal to describe the political left these days because they aren't really Liberals historic sense.  They are Progressives.  Classical Liberalism is not the same as Modern Progressivism.  One is rooted in freedom while the other is rooted in Marxism.  

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12 hours ago, Claw Hammer said:

I am at the point of either not voting because we dont get represented or voting third party and knowing it wont matter.

You need to vote bc if you don't vote than they will pick a Democrat/liberal for you from what I heard.  

 

I have info to trust the President Donald Trump because after President Donald Trump..that's what we are going to have to worry about.  

 

As Jesus soldiers we need to stay clear and stay focused.  

 

Democrats/socialists/Communists and whatever names they will be using to gain control of the people we need to stay focused. 

 

As I always say...y'all worried about President Donald Trump..you should be more worried what comes AFTER President Donald Trump.  We are living at the end of days.  We are the LAST AMERICANS.

 

 

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8 hours ago, MONICA said:

You need to vote bc if you don't vote than they will pick a Democrat/liberal for you from what I heard.  

 

I have info to trust the President Donald Trump because after President Donald Trump..that's what we are going to have to worry about.  

 

As Jesus soldiers we need to stay clear and stay focused.  

 

Democrats/socialists/Communists and whatever names they will be using to gain control of the people we need to stay focused. 

 

As I always say...y'all worried about President Donald Trump..you should be more worried what comes AFTER President Donald Trump.  We are living at the end of days.  We are the LAST AMERICANS.

 

 

So ....the two party system of voting ..... and I am disappointed with anti gun trump.     

 

I honestly don't care who wins it's over at this point

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15 hours ago, RevRifleman said:

Most of my voting life was spent registered as an Independent.  It was only in 2016 that I bumped over to the Republican party.  I've since moved back to Independent.  I am, however, politically conservative both socially and economically. I have flirtations with Libertarianism... I like both Ron Paul and Rand Paul.  I voted for Bob Barr.  However, Libertarianism is a rather broad political platform and it has glaring deficiencies that tend to go unnoticed - it's too idealistic and assumes people are better natured than they really are.  

 

I've found myself flirting with Propertarianism these days.  I have concerns with this as well.  The reality is that in this life... perfection will never be attained.  

 

All of that being said... were the Founders Liberal?  

 

I don't think they thought in terms of liberal or conservative the way we do today.  Even if we were to try and box them in with our current terminology... to paint them all as liberal would be odd given that the Founding Fathers weren't all in perfect agreement on many matters.

 

I try *and fail* to not use the term liberal to describe the political left these days because they aren't really Liberals historic sense.  They are Progressives.  Classical Liberalism is not the same as Modern Progressivism.  One is rooted in freedom while the other is rooted in Marxism.  

I rather live closer to no government then people who make laws to get back at the other party....or tell me we need a republican version of example......red flag laws.   Sorry we have gone so far that it will never be reversed.  Republicans stopped caring about limited government in 1900.

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10 hours ago, MONICA said:

You need to vote bc if you don't vote than they will pick a Democrat/liberal for you from what I heard.  

 

I have info to trust the President Donald Trump because after President Donald Trump..that's what we are going to have to worry about.  

 

As Jesus soldiers we need to stay clear and stay focused.  

 

Democrats/socialists/Communists and whatever names they will be using to gain control of the people we need to stay focused. 

 

As I always say...y'all worried about President Donald Trump..you should be more worried what comes AFTER President Donald Trump.  We are living at the end of days.  We are the LAST AMERICANS.

 

 

 

In 1997, I read a book called "The Art of the Comeback", by Donald Trump.  On the surface, the book was about his successful effort to bring his financial empire back from the brink.  But when you looked closer, the book should have been entitled "How I Would Bring America Back".  From that moment on, I knew that I would vote for Trump, if he ever ran for the Presidency.  He did, and I did.  What he has accomplished is amazing, given the opposition against him (much of it from his own Party).

 

He's a man who keeps his promises, and that says a lot to me.  He has more courage than just about anyone who has occupied that high office.  I will vote for him, on Election Day, next year.

 

I just as well be a communist as vote for the Democrats.  Though they have some good ideas, the Libertarians don't stand a chance, and I've never bought into their stance on drugs.  There's no one else, except DJT.  I'm a conservative, and Mr. Trump has shown me that a New York billionaire can do what needs to be done.

 

As you said, we should be more worried about what would replace President Trump.  I look at that pack of commies laughingly called "Democrats", and all I can do is shake me head in sorrow, thinking what would happen after a DEM victory, next Fall.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, Claw Hammer said:

So ....the two party system of voting ..... and I am disappointed with anti gun trump.     

 

I honestly don't care who wins it's over at this point

 

Hammer, it doesn't matter if we don't like it.  The DEMs and the GOP have set up a system whereby only two parties have a chance to win.  We have to choose between them.  I'd rather shoot myself than vote for the party that has Ilhan Omar, Occasional Cortex, and Rashida Tlaib in it.

 

By the way, I never gave my take on the question ...

 

The word "liberal" has drastically changed its meaning since the time of the Founders.  In their time, a Western Liberal was someone who believed in a political and moral philosophy based on liberty, consent of the governed, and equality before the law.  It grew out of 17th-18th Century philosophy in Europe.  If you are a conservative, today, then you are a TRUE liberal.

 

A modern liberal is simply a Marxist, though I have lived long enough to remember when liberals were patriots.

Edited by Headhunter

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1 hour ago, Headhunter said:

 

Hammer, it doesn't matter if we don't like it.  The DEMs and the GOP have set up a system whereby only two parties have a chance to win.  We have to choose between them.  I'd rather shoot myself than vote for the party that has Ilhan Omar, Occasional Cortex, and Rashida Tlaib in it.

 

By the way, I never gave my take on the question ...

 

The word "liberal" has drastically changed its meaning since the time of the Founders.  In their time, a Western Liberal was someone who believed in a political and moral philosophy based on liberty, consent of the governed, and equality before the law.  It grew out of 17th-18th Century philosophy in Europe.  If you are a conservative, today, then you are a TRUE liberal.

 

A modern liberal is simply a Marxist, though I have lived long enough to remember when liberals were patriots.

The way it works now is we get happy that one guy will change the system.    The reality is your hoping a cup of water will purify the poison well.    At this point we are not voting ourselves out of the problem and it will come to head.     You can vote for whomever promises the best lies but they wont get anything done.  Let's hope the war is violent enough that we dont have one again for 150 more years.

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The most important thing is that if there is an armed conflict that the traitor leaders / "representatives" including those behind the scenes in our country and others are rounded up, swiftly tried and just as swiftly swinging in the public square for all to see.  Don't let them continue to fester to have to do it over again.

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Posted (edited)
23 hours ago, Claw Hammer said:

The way it works now is we get happy that one guy will change the system.    The reality is your hoping a cup of water will purify the poison well.    At this point we are not voting ourselves out of the problem and it will come to head.     You can vote for whomever promises the best lies but they wont get anything done.  Let's hope the war is violent enough that we dont have one again for 150 more years.

 

I understand what you're saying.  I happily voted for my current congressman (Kinzinger) because he was a combat veteran, and said "all the right things".  About a year into his first term, the American Conservative Union rated him at a 37%.  There's only so much that President Trump, Vice-President Pence, and whatever support he has in Congress, can do.  The best thing he has done are his SCOTUS appointments.  Hopefully, he can get another one of those, before the election, next year.  Of course, I'm happy with the economy.

 

But he is one man.  Seriously, I don't believe that Pence can get into the Oval Office on his own.  All of the Democrats are totally unacceptable, to me.

 

So, as usual, we're stuck with our normal "vote and hope" choice.

 

If there is a "war", the Left is extremely vulnerable.  Their food, power, and water comes from the Red areas of the country.  But everything will depend on which direction the bulk of the military goes.  The lethality of modern weapons-systems is so great that the war will end in favor of which side has the most military support.

Edited by Headhunter

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5 minutes ago, Headhunter said:

 

I understand what you're saying.  I happily voted for my current congressman (Kinzinger) because he was a combat veteran, and said "all the right things".  About a year into his first term, the American Conservative Union rated him at a 37%.  There's only so much that President Trump, Vice-President Pence, and whatever support he has in Congress, can do.  The best thing he has done are his SCOTUS appointments.  Hopefully, he can get another one of those, before the election, next year.  Of course, I'm happy with the economy.

 

But he is one man.  Seriously, I don't believe that Pence can get into the Oval Office on his own.  All of the Democrats are totally unacceptable, to me.

 

So, as usual, we're stuck with our normal "vote and hope" choice.

 

If there is a "war", the Left is extremely vulnerable.  Their food, power, and water comes from the Red areas of the country.  But everything will depend on which direction the bulk of the military goes.  The lethality of modern weapons-systems is so great that the war will end in favor of which side has the most military support.

Well the left owns the port cities coasts and soon to be texas.   They can import anything they want to include military and food.

 

The midwest would struggle  without fuel.    It would be brutal for everyone. 

 

The military would basically go to their homes and not give a rat's ass about the public.

 

For all purposes  vote but trump is anti gun and we dont have anyone to support gun owners rights.  I don't trust anyone in office.  Especially after Crenshaw turned into a turn coat.

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Hammer, I upvote you because I understand your frustration.  This is a crazy world we live in, and no where is it crazier than in our government (which isn't ours, anymore).  I don't believe that Trump is anti-gun.  In my estimation, he has had to react to a suspicious series of what could be false-flag events.  How many "conservatives" committed these mass murders?  As to Las Vegas, we don't even know the shooter's motivations, because he was conveniently killed.

 

Aside from that, I simply don't know what more there is to say.

 

Crenshaw.  Geez ...

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1 hour ago, Headhunter said:

Hammer, I upvote you because I understand your frustration.  This is a crazy world we live in, and no where is it crazier than in our government (which isn't ours, anymore).  I don't believe that Trump is anti-gun.  In my estimation, he has had to react to a suspicious series of what could be false-flag events.  How many "conservatives" committed these mass murders?  As to Las Vegas, we don't even know the shooter's motivations, because he was conveniently killed.

 

Aside from that, I simply don't know what more there is to say.

 

Crenshaw.  Geez ...

Trump so far backs 

 

Red flag laws

Banning private sales

Banned bump stocks 

Also supported the assault weapons ban

Hates suppressors. 

 

We have good trump and bad trump....just happens bad trump is anti gun.    We dont have anybody to support.    Let it burn at this point.    My advice to you all is to stock deep.  Food, water and everything else

 

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31 minutes ago, Let_Freedom_Ring said:

LOL okay everyone, lets get back on topic to the title.  I'm guilty of it myself.  Were the founding fathers Liberals?  😉

I look at liberal as dnc but that didnt start really till Andrew Jackson.   

 

They had the belief that we could be free men. With limited government. 

 

 

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All civil rights and the right to hold office were to be extended to persons of any Christian denomination.

Roger Sherman

 One of the signers of the Declaration of Independents. 

All our laws are based on the "Doctrine of Christianity",  when the Courts or Government interrupts laws contrary to that Doctrine,

 

They have violated the "Basic Principles" on which our laws are based.

Not only that, they have set a "precedence" that other doctrines can claim "Equal Rights" in interrupting Law according to their doctrine,

 

Even Sharia law.

All these laws of Abortion, Sexual perversion, Transgenders, violate the very foundation on which our laws are based.

 

And without Christianity doctrine to "RESTRICT/GUIDE" them, there are no limitations as to what they can rules as being "Legal".

Just as the Constitution places limits on Government, the law also limits the Courts to the Doctrine on which the Constitution, and country was established.

 

Limits that the "liberals" on/in the Courts ignore.

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Posted (edited)
19 hours ago, Claw Hammer said:

Trump so far backs 

 

Red flag laws

Banning private sales

Banned bump stocks 

Also supported the assault weapons ban

Hates suppressors. 

 

We have good trump and bad trump....just happens bad trump is anti gun.    We dont have anybody to support.    Let it burn at this point.    My advice to you all is to stock deep.  Food, water and everything else

 

 

He has taken action on in the bump stock ban.  You're not missing anything there, because had the Las Vegas shooter not shot into a crowd, he would have done a lot of "missing".  I've shot a rifle with a bump stock attached, and although it was fun, you can't hold the weapon on-target.  You just "spray and pray".  Only the first shot hit the target.  The rest went God knows where.

 

Does he "back" red flag laws, banning private sales, assault weapons bans, and banning suppressors?  If so, he has done nothing about it.

 

Concerning the thread topic, I repeat what I said, earlier:

" The word "liberal" has drastically changed its meaning since the time of the Founders.  In their time, a Western Liberal was someone who believed in a political and moral philosophy based on liberty, consent of the governed, and equality before the law.  It grew out of 17th-18th Century philosophy in Europe.  If you are a conservative, today, then you are a TRUE liberal.

 

I agree with what the Founders believed, and that makes me a modern conservative.

 

A modern liberal is nothing more than a Marxist.

Edited by Headhunter

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17 minutes ago, Headhunter said:

 

He has taken action on in the bump stock ban.  You're not missing anything there, because had the Las Vegas shooter not shot into a crowd, he would have done a lot of "missing".  I've shot a rifle with a bump stock attached, and although it was fun, you can't hold the weapon on-target.  You just "spray and pray".  Only the first shot hit the target.  The rest went God knows where.

 

Does he "back" red flag laws, banning private sales, assault weapons bans, and banning suppressors?  If so, he has done nothing about it.

 

Concerning the thread topic, I repeat what I said, earlier:

" The word "liberal" has drastically changed its meaning since the time of the Founders.  In their time, a Western Liberal was someone who believed in a political and moral philosophy based on liberty, consent of the governed, and equality before the law.  It grew out of 17th-18th Century philosophy in Europe.  If you are a conservative, today, then you are a TRUE liberal.

 

I agree with what the Founders believed, and that makes me a modern conservative.

 

A modern liberal is nothing more than a Marxist.

Infringing is still just that and very common for Republicans to do so.   I would say that if he would think finding middle ground with the Democrats on gun control he would sign it. He isn't really a pro 2a guy.

 

Liberals today are embracing their progressive name again and true to all liberals socialism has always been the end goal. I am sure not everyone on the founders was a die hard conservative  because a few of them wanted more federal power. 

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Government powers were "Enumerated" in the Constitution to keep them from legislating any laws that would deny/take away any of the Freedoms/Rights therein.

 

All "powers" not enumerated to government are "RESERVED" to the States or People.

Neither State or Federal Governments has "ANY AUTHORITY" to legislate a law to change anything in the Constitution or "Bill of Rights".

 

Only a "Constitutional Amendment" can change "ANYTHING" in the Constitution.

 

TENTH AMENDMENT
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

 

Hamilton, in Federalist Paper 84 ask the question:
“Why even include a Bill of rights/freedom of press, if Government can not legislate outside the enumeration of powers granted to it”??

All these "Red Flag" laws are a "SERIOUS" violation of the Constitution, and "JUSTIFICATION" for citizens to use the "Second Amendment" to correct it,

If Government fails or refuses.

“When rights secured by the Constitution are involved, there can be no rule making or
legislation which would abrogate them. [Miranda v. Arizona, 384 US 436, 491.]


 

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The meaning of the word Liberal has changed over time.  Nowadays it's up to the TV to decide what the word means.  The word has been redefined to mean a "liberal" hits someone over the head with a bike-lock and burns their free speech sign in Berkeley.  50 Years ago, it was the liberals holding the free speech sign, not burning them.  That's why some people will refer to CLASSIC or PROGRESSIVE liberals. 

 

Classic meaning Free speech, pro-capitalist, don't touch my guns, collect my own rainwater and I just want to carry a gun while smoking pot at my gay friends wedding. (voltaire)  Many Libertarians, thought-criminals and anon hackers fall into this category.

 

Progressive meaning commie scum bug-men of 1984.  Authoritarian take away everyone's civil rights for the sake of equality. (Karl Marx)  This tends to be the part of the TV people who rely on TV to tell them what they think and how they feel.

 

But that's just my 2 cents.  Words only have meaning because people have a shared understanding of the word, when the meaning of words change, who's to say who is right?berkeley-then-free-speech-berkeley-now-1

 

 

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My Fellow Patriots:

I went to Church today and i spoke to my Pastors Wife who was visiting Cuba for 2 weeks and she told me that they ration food out there. They get one piece of bread and bs food. They are not allowed to be on the streets at a certain time. There is not a such thing about xmas out there. The Govt control everything. They even control the water. That is what we are looking at if we dont prepare ourselves and eventually act. There is no such thing of freedom. They have no rights. The People are not allowed to eat certain meat. The only ones that eat good is the Govt. Im not with that bs. Aint nobody going to tell me how much or what i can eat. Im not going to be told what time i have to go home either. Thats like telling a Lion to live in a cage. They got me twisted if they think they can control me. We need to train more and prepare more. I wont EVER bow down to any Communist Ruler. N. Korea is the same way. If this happens we are all done for. These Foreign Countries went through the Disarming of the people and look how they turned out. Now they live like slaves. Rebellion is our only option. I have a feeling that the Elite are going to Assasinate Trump like they did to JFK, Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King Jr. Why? Cause they were too Powerful and were the Voice of We The People.They tried to Assasinate Ronald Ragen because of the same reason, that is why Ronald Ragen fell in line. We are in a time of Turmoil. We dont have that much time. My Brothers and Sisters, we are going to need to start Racking up on Supplies, Gear, Ammo, Firearms and Etc. 2020 is going to be like living in hell...

Edited by Courage777

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On 10/20/2019 at 8:32 PM, Courage777 said:

My Fellow Patriots:

I went to Church today and i spoke to my Pastors Wife who was visiting Cuba for 2 weeks and she told me that they ration food out there. They get one piece of bread and bs food. They are not allowed to be on the streets at a certain time. There is not a such thing about xmas out there. The Govt control everything. They even control the water. That is what we are looking at if we dont prepare ourselves and eventually act. There is no such thing of freedom. They have no rights. The People are not allowed to eat certain meat. The only ones that eat good is the Govt. Im not with that bs. Aint nobody going to tell me how much or what i can eat. Im not going to be told what time i have to go home either. Thats like telling a Lion to live in a cage. They got me twisted if they think they can control me. We need to train more and prepare more. I wont EVER bow down to any Communist Ruler. N. Korea is the same way. If this happens we are all done for. These Foreign Countries went through the Disarming of the people and look how they turned out. Now they live like slaves. Rebellion is our only option. I have a feeling that the Elite are going to Assasinate Trump like they did to JFK, Abraham Lincoln and Martin Luther King Jr. Why? Cause they were too Powerful and were the Voice of We The People.They tried to Assasinate Ronald Ragen because of the same reason, that is why Ronald Ragen fell in line. We are in a time of Turmoil. We dont have that much time. My Brothers and Sisters, we are going to need to start Racking up on Supplies, Gear, Ammo, Firearms and Etc. 2020 is going to be like living in hell...

 Please pray for my sibling to wake up from NPR.  Much thanks.

Also, the rest of these folks.

 

10-4

 

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