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Night Vision, A Force Multiplier

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Night Vision, A Force Multiplier

 

Night Vision VS Thermal

 

 

3RD GEN NIGHT VISION VS THERMAL

 

 

 

White Phosphor Night Vision: Armasight Sirius Gen 2+ Quick Silver NVD

 

 

 

GEN 1 VS GEN 2 VS GEN 3 NIGHT VISION

 

 

 

My Number 1 combat multiplier for a WROL situation....Night vision

 

 

Budget OK night vision

Sightmark SM14070 Ghost Hunter 1x24 Night Vision

 

https://www.amazon.com/Sightmark-SM14070-Hunter-Vision-Goggle/dp/B004TDPQCG/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Sightmark+SM14070+Ghost+Hunter+1x24+Night+Vision&qid=1576202055&sr=8-1

 

 

 

Sightmark SM15070 Ghost Hunter 1x24 Night Vision Goggle Binocular Kit

https://www.amazon.com/Sightmark-SM15070-Hunter-Vision-Binocular/dp/B004TDPRZ2/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Sightmark+SM15070+Ghost+Hunter+1x24+Night+Vision+Goggle+Binocular+Kit&qid=1576203799&sr=8-1

 

 

 

 


"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.” ― Mark Twain

 

"I prefer dangerous FREEDOM over peaceful SLAVERY" -Thomas Jefferson

 

"Si vis pacem para bellum" - Every wise warrior there ever was.

 

lfr.jpg.91d35fb0dbad2fa6e5cc5b2544ce55d5.jpg

 

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Sightmark's Ghost Hunter NV Goggles - REVIEW

 

 

 


"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.” ― Mark Twain

 

"I prefer dangerous FREEDOM over peaceful SLAVERY" -Thomas Jefferson

 

"Si vis pacem para bellum" - Every wise warrior there ever was.

 

lfr.jpg.91d35fb0dbad2fa6e5cc5b2544ce55d5.jpg

 

lfr.jpg

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Gen 1 nods generally range around $100-$300. Gen 2 is a HUGE leap from Gen 1, and so is the price, starting at around $800. Gen 3 is the "bee's knees" right now, with the most light magnification for civilian use (Gen 4 is currently only available to military personnel). They are quite expensive, and start around $1,100-$1,200. I don't have dead presidents egressing out of my 6, so I run the Sightmark Ghost Hunter 1x24 (Gen 1) monocular on my maritime bump helmet, along with an ir illuminator mounted on the side of the helmet. It really does take some time to get use to. It's like looking through a toilet paper roll. But with enough training, one could be quite the force multiplier; say, in a defensive role, while on patrol at night. Shooting (at night) with nods, and actually HITTING your target is VERY difficult without an ir laser, or other aiming device. They're pretty pricey, but you can "own the night" with these... and of course, proper training. It would not do any good to go out and buy some night vision, and just stow them until you need them. All the "cool guy" kit won't do you ANY good without training. Train how you fight, and you will fight how you train. 

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Also, I currently run a Torrey Pines Logic T-12V as a thermal target identifier, either weapon mounted, or on a custom made mount that mates to my helmet. They are pretty cool, but even thermal imaging can be defeated, if you understand enough about how it works. VERY expensive, no matter what type of FLIR you're running. Just another tool on the tool belt...

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A night vision rifle scope is the only scope which interests me.  If every citizen had a rifle and night vision the government, any government, would have a kitten.  I keep going around and around on these scopes.  First, wearing goggles does not help me aim a rifle, so I need a rifle scope.  Second, the video at the top points out the limitations of thermal but "night vision" uses a IR flashlight or it is almost useless.  IR means infrared.  That is heat, so anyone with better night vision than yours and everyone with thermal knows exactly where you are.  Passive thermal is the answer for guarding stationary positions against intruder.  But my second mortgage didn't go through so a 4K price tag is out.

 

So I am back to the feasible rather than what I want.  The Sightmark Ghost hunter has an attachment for rifles.  But is that a system which must be used with a red dot or are their cross hairs in the Ghost Hunter?  I have bookmarked about a half dozen other night vision scopes.  Does someone have a practical review based on actual experience?  I would love to hear that.
 

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I stumbled onto something new.  Everyone interested in night vision looks for something affordable yet of some real value.  Regarding light amplification, Gen 1 is not very useful and runs at least $400.00, Gen 2 is much better and much more expensive.  Gen 3 is a bit better than Gen 2 and more pricey.  All have IR lights to amplify the light if you are in total darkness.  And this IR can be seen like a flashlight by anyone else with night vision.  Thermal is much better for shooting and much more expensive still and really only illuminates something hot so you cannot see the ground you are walking on.

 

What is new is the laser flashlight.  There are at least two on the market.  The one I like is the Acebeam W30.  It is 500 lumens but over one million candela.  It throws a beam of light out over 2000 meters---yes meters.  It also has a red filter.

 

 

If you get tired of things being illuminated, go to about the five minute mark and check out the red filter.  This allows illumination of the target without the light trail coming back to you in most cases.  This whole unit may fit into a weapons mount on your rifle.  I have no idea of its durability or ability to absorb shock.  This costs as little as $279.00. There may be others coming.

 

What do you guys think of this as an alternative to night vision?

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Further research:  Acebeam W10 a light "for shooters".  This is a downsize laser flashlight from the Acebeam W30 and evidently for rifles.  It is 250 lumens but a 1000 meter throw!!  This is more than enough for me.  Just dividing 1000 in two is probably right and still fine for me.  It has one mode, full on.  Rechargeable, takes three types of batteries.  Here is a review.  It is about $286.00.  It comes with a green and red filter so there is no beam effect coming out of the light.  For me this is far better than night vision.  I wonder what happens to night vision if it is hit by a laser?  It seems to me it either burns out or is automatically shut down---so now your opposition is blind.  I don't know about thermal.

 

https://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?453594-REVIEW-ACEBEAM-W10-LEP-Light

 

 

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OK, help me here.  It looks like you can get a NV google set or monocle, strap it to a gopro mount or helmet, slide the red dot forward, and bingo, you have a NV set up for a couple hundred dollars!

Is that right?  What about the red dot, does it have to be night vision compatible ???  It is interesting though to say the least.

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For a relatively affordable weapon mounted thermal sight, I recommend the Torrey Pines Logic T-12 series. I own the T12-N model. I think I paid a scoshe under $450. It's the base model, but there are others with different features. It's adjustable for windage and elevation, has multiple reticules, and also has different viewing settings, ie: white-hot, black-hot, "color", and green. 

As far as, say, Gen 1 night vision, you don't "need" an ir illuminator. You will get better light magnification on a moon lit night than a cloudy night. As far as ir illuminators are concerned, any night vision will detect it. To the naked eye, you will see (barely) an 850 nanometer wavelength ir illuminator, BUT you won't see a 930 nanometer ir illuminator. Just as an example, I believe TV remotes operate @ 930 nm. Try looking into it and pressing the buttons. Nothing, right? Now put your cellphone camera up to it and do the same thing. Big difference. Sure, Gen 3 nvg's are primo, but for the average Joe, Gen 1 is probably all what most of us can afford. ATN has a range of digital night vision scopes that I hear are pretty popular. They start around $400. I'm no Spec Ops guy, but I have done some pretty extensive research myself on this topic. If you are interested in dropping some coin on one of these force multipliers, I will be more than happy to help anyone with questions. As always, stay frosty...

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Night vision goggles are a great tool. I have experience with AN/PVS 7's and 14's while in the Marine Corps. The PVS14 monocular is superior to the 7's. In low light, no moon settings, night vision suffers to almost in-usability. I have messed around with the low budget night vision, and i would not use them in any offensive operation, but rather would use them on a perimeter to see if there was any movement in the bush. At which point, i would hit them with my flashlight and a few green tips.

 

Would rather use a high power flashlight in offense if using low budget night vision, if your rolling around with a crew, very hard to be quiet with a crew with all your gear. You rattle. Next best thing is to dominate with force if stealth isn't an option. I conducted a raid in helmand province in the dead of night where night vision was almost not usable. We didnt try to be quiet. We just rolled up into the compound by force without stopping, even with the noise of a squad rolling up fast, we surprised them.

 

Night vision is also very efficient when coupled with an IR laser equipped on your rifle. This is where it beats thermal. If using night vision, strap a IR capable laser to it. Adjust the laser to be on target at 25 to 50 yards. Roll out. No need to shoulder it, point your laser and shoot, good for close range.

 

While overseas, i have never seen a quality thermal device not show me exactly what i needed to see. You can drive your vehicle with only thermal. It maps everything for you based on heat. I would prefer thermal on perimeter defense over night vision, and night vision over thermal in offense with laser.

 

This is what theyll be using.

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4 minutes ago, Peoples-army said:

I watched the video above, the thermal being used there was not very efficient. The thermal used by UAV's and on military vehicles can pick up the heat signature differences between the trees and the dirt. IED's are found overseas by thermal looking for differences in heat of disturbed dirt. You will still be noticed with this "suit".

I I

Quote

 

If your in a group and you think a UAV is following you or helicopter with thermal, split up into multiple groups. They cant follow everyone.

 

Edited by Peoples-army

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I don't know how to quote on this site yet but Triton 37 has found the gold mine.  This Torrey Pines thermal scope (there are at least 3) is the answer.  I found one for about $535.00.  This is a thermal scope so no IR emitter.  The price is about the same as an inexpensive Eotech.  This thing is light in weight too.  How do you go wrong?

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@ Peoples-army

 

Great review of who's who and what's what.  Honestly, I am worried about defense and defending against opposition with night vision capability in a forest setting.  Is there ever going to be enough people on your side with night vision to mount an offensive at night in a SHTF or Boogaloo world?  I think just turning back their attack would be enough to discourage them at night.

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Roger that, Bergermeister. My head is primarily defensive, at this point. When it comes to protecting women and children at night, during SHTF, I want as many unfair advantages as I can get. I'd rather have crappy night vision than just my eyeballs.

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Also Triton 37, that was a great video.  There are others similar on the internet but this one is the most complete.  As for drones spotting you anyway, nothing is invincible and something is better than nothing as has already been said.  

 

This is a great thread at least for me guys, thanks.

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dont get crap. NV imho has the largest gap between quality products, & crap products.

 

be prepared to spend upwards of 7k for NVGs, IR light/laser, a good helmet mount & arm, & soooo many batteries (pending on useage).

batteryjunction.com or amazon batteries my friends

 

training (again) is key here as well. shout out to https://telluric.us/training/nv-low-light-courses/

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54 minutes ago, Bergmeister said:

@ Peoples-army

 

Great review of who's who and what's what.  Honestly, I am worried about defense and defending against opposition with night vision capability in a forest setting.  Is there ever going to be enough people on your side with night vision to mount an offensive at night in a SHTF or Boogaloo world?  I think just turning back their attack would be enough to discourage them at night.

Id say the real question is who are "they". If were just worried about unorganized criminals, turning their attack would probably do the trick.

 

However,Lets say the things in Virginia escalates and heavy hitters join the opposition, not just national guard. But special operations command. They will use AN/PVS 14s or better with IR lasers on their rifles. If Special operations or private military contractors from XE, triple canopy, other... join the fight against us, because they'll be paid a lot of money to do so, no i don't think it would be enough to only be in a defensive posture. They will out gun isolated groups. Unless you have a standing army and even then, theyll strike it acting as forward observers calling in airstrikes from fighter jets or Predator or Reaper drones.

 

Our only real defense would be our ability to strike quickly and with surprise. Keep them reacting to us. If we only rely on defense, 1 no forward advance is made. And 2, they will keep us reacting.

 

Yes i think there will be enough people to conduct quick strikes at night against high value targets.

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Author of the topic Posted
10 hours ago, Triton 37 said:

For a relatively affordable weapon mounted thermal sight, I recommend the Torrey Pines Logic T-12 series. I own the T12-N model. I think I paid a scoshe under $450. It's the base model, but there are others with different features. It's adjustable for windage and elevation, has multiple reticules, and also has different viewing settings, ie: white-hot, black-hot, "color", and green. 

As far as, say, Gen 1 night vision, you don't "need" an ir illuminator. You will get better light magnification on a moon lit night than a cloudy night. As far as ir illuminators are concerned, any night vision will detect it. To the naked eye, you will see (barely) an 850 nanometer wavelength ir illuminator, BUT you won't see a 930 nanometer ir illuminator. Just as an example, I believe TV remotes operate @ 930 nm. Try looking into it and pressing the buttons. Nothing, right? Now put your cellphone camera up to it and do the same thing. Big difference. Sure, Gen 3 nvg's are primo, but for the average Joe, Gen 1 is probably all what most of us can afford. ATN has a range of digital night vision scopes that I hear are pretty popular. They start around $400. I'm no Spec Ops guy, but I have done some pretty extensive research myself on this topic. If you are interested in dropping some coin on one of these force multipliers, I will be more than happy to help anyone with questions. As always, stay frosty...

 

Here are some reviews of it on Amazon:

 

https://www.amazon.com/Torrey-Pines-Logic-Thermal-Imaging/dp/B013C8L9HE#customerReviews

 


"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.” ― Mark Twain

 

"I prefer dangerous FREEDOM over peaceful SLAVERY" -Thomas Jefferson

 

"Si vis pacem para bellum" - Every wise warrior there ever was.

 

lfr.jpg.91d35fb0dbad2fa6e5cc5b2544ce55d5.jpg

 

lfr.jpg

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OK guys, tell me what happens to a Gen 1, Gen 2, Gen 3 night vision when I shine my 1 million candela laser flashlight in their face?  Are they shielded or not?  I am assuming thermal is no problem but if that is false, please wake me up.

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Author of the topic Posted
19 hours ago, Bergmeister said:

OK guys, tell me what happens to a Gen 1, Gen 2, Gen 3 night vision when I shine my 1 million candela laser flashlight in their face?  Are they shielded or not?  I am assuming thermal is no problem but if that is false, please wake me up.

 

If you have a good true NVG that uses a phosphate to enhance the light, it has an auto shut off that keeps the phosphate tube from getting burned out once it reaches a certain amount of lumens, mine does.  Of course it is still useless until it reboots, off then on again.  If it is digital night vision it shouldn't damage it although it would still blur out your vision through it as long as the light is shining into the lense.  Not sure about thermal but since it detects heat instead of light it shouldn't be a problem.  I think you would just see the flashlight as a dot of heat source.


"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.” ― Mark Twain

 

"I prefer dangerous FREEDOM over peaceful SLAVERY" -Thomas Jefferson

 

"Si vis pacem para bellum" - Every wise warrior there ever was.

 

lfr.jpg.91d35fb0dbad2fa6e5cc5b2544ce55d5.jpg

 

lfr.jpg

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