Militia Leadership

[Megatron 1,175]

Exolains

1 minute ago, Doug1943 said:

Oh, for sure!

 

There, we were foreign invaders, who were not loved.  It wasn't a civil war,  nor a war between two states (like so-called 'conventional' war). In Iraq it wasn't even guerilla warfare, but further over on the spectrum between conventional warfare (at one end) and terrorism, on the other.

 

If Iraq or Cuba or Andorra ever invade the United States, I am sure that, if we have no military, we can make life unpleasant enough for them over a period of years, until they leave.  (I do pity occupation troops standing guard duty on a Saturday night in Detroit or South Chicago or a hundred other such places,  with or without the native inhabitants having any intention of waging guerilla war.)

 

But if there is a civil war in America, it will be between Americans. ('Blue Helmets' are just a paranoid fantasy, although as a tactic, getting some helmet liners now (are these still sold), painting them blue, maybe sticking an Islamic symbol on them, and then storing them safely away to be brought out and put around the bodies of dead enemies, might be useful.)

 

'Guerilla war' and 'terrorism' will probably play very little roles in it, nor will it be much like the conventional wars of old: huge armies maneuvering in the countryside.  I'm just speculating here, but I suspect an American civil war will be much more like the civil wars in Europe in the second half of the 19th Century (see the 'Springtime of the Nations' in 1848, the Paris Commune twenty years later, the Russian Revolutions of 1905 and 1917.)   Brief, maybe bitter, but not really either conventional or guerilla warfare.

 

Capturing the  locus of symbolic political power in every location will be key (City Hall, County HQ, the state Capitol Building, Washington),  followed by restoring 'ordered liberty'.  If the  aim of the patriots is a peaceful separation of the two distinct peoples which the Americans have now become, then they have a chance of forcing a realtively bloodless compromise onto the Left.

 

But whatever happens, winning over and/or neutralizing the official military will be key.  Do this, and victory is yours. Don't do it, and defeat is yours. 

 

I would like to expand and get some discussion, later, on the next statement, which I believe is at the heart of this and other discussions:  the signicance of the militia movement is NOT military. It is political.  The militia movement can, in a future existential American crisis, achieve all of its legitimate aims, without a shot being fired, and should aim to so.

 

 

Explains why are we are losing and becoming more and more irrelevant in the public's eye.  

 

If you think civil war in the United states wouldn't be gorilla and terrorist attacks....then man you need to look at all of the modern break downs.  In Iraq the locals we worked with would hunt their opponents on the days they didn't work with us.    I mean hunt to death.

[TheOldman 39]

23 minutes ago, Megatron said:

 

Lol I never been in the militiary or been to war.  Hmmm guess that was a strange thing with the army and werid didn't need a passport for that country where Saddam Hussein was    I guess I just dont know a thing.    Clearly you don't pay attention to small team tactics which is basic of gorilla style warfare. 

 

Anyways go watch braveheart or glory a few more times.   

Megatron, my apologizes,  from your statement it appeared that you had not been in the Military, or had seen action; clearly if you where there, you have done both, and we did not need a passport for the country that we were deployed at.   I do pay attention to small team tactics, and gorilla warfare, or did; I am the last surviving member of a team.   I  would rather be in a small well train team myself, that can operate as a group or individual as needed to accomplish the missions, vice a large group.     I do not watch the Fake crap from fairy tale land on TV , or movies.  If I do watch TV, my preferred show is NATURE., otherwise it's mostly make believe crap from Fairy Tale land.   There is a lot of folks out there that have never served, and are just dreamers of something they no nothing about.   After awhile you get tired of it.   So again, my apologies, I am glad that you made it back home.  

[TheOldman 39]

12 minutes ago, Megatron said:

Exolains

Explains why are we are losing and becoming more and more irrelevant in the public's eye.  

 

If you think civil war in the United states wouldn't be gorilla and terrorist attacks....then man you need to look at all of the modern break downs.  In Iraq the locals we worked with would hunt their opponents on the days they didn't work with us.    I mean hunt to death.

You are correct

[John Last 570]

3 hours ago, Megatron said:

Cool let me know how the fake rank ones workout.  Was talking to one guy who was a lt in this 1000 man militia but when asked how often they trained.    Nothing but crickets and in the years of existence nobody's ever met. 

 

I'll take 5 solid guys who work together over 1000 fake ones dreaming about glory. 

 

 

Are we talking about unit leaders or rank...?  Believe it or not, there is a difference and switching the argument back and forth doesn't help.

[Megatron 1,175]

26 minutes ago, John Last said:

 

 

Are we talking about unit leaders or rank...?  Believe it or not, there is a difference and switching the argument back and forth doesn't help.

Actually both,  like I mentioned before the idea that you need some all mightly leader for a group isnt always true.  The day I see groups actively participating and training at platoon level strength on a monthly basis then sure you can vote in a leader for a term limit.    

 

Unfortunately that is unlikely and you're better off working with a small group of 5 to 10 if you can even get that.  No real leader needed just work and train and see what strengths people  have.

 

Yes on the side note the lame ranks and made up positions.   Sorry I wont be saluting you or calling you sir or sgt because you determined that's your rank of the day.    You didnt spend time earning that rank or going to a actual schoolhouse for it.  So sorry that's how I feel on it

[TheOldman 39]

10 minutes ago, Megatron said:

Actually both,  like I mentioned before the idea that you need some all mightly leader for a group isnt always true.  The day I see groups actively participating and training at platoon level strength on a monthly basis then sure you can vote in a leader for a term limit.    

 

Unfortunately that is unlikely and you're better off working with a small group of 5 to 10 if you can even get that.  No real leader needed just work and train and see what strengths people  have.

 

Yes on the side note the lame ranks and made up positions.   Sorry I wont be saluting you or calling you sir or sgt because you determined that's your rank of the day.    You didnt spend time earning that rank or going to a actual schoolhouse for it.  So sorry that's how I feel on it

Megatron,  I absolutely agree with you on all points.  I am not about to call anyone sir or sgt, or salute them, because they have determined their rank...So, there is no need for you to say sorry, that's how I feel on it; it just a fact how you feel.  I would think that all of the Vets out there feel the same way; I sure do. 

[J SkriptXXIII 18]

You are right, alot of us have not been to war, and most here who have are too old to fight in another so it will be up to the ones who have never experienced it, the way i see it we did this your guys way for 100 yrs and look where we ended up, ppl take that leadership and corrupt it, you cant say leave it to the ppl to overthrow the corruption like we didnt do and it wont happen, look where we are, how long we have been held in invisible chains, a leader would be good in a hectic situation but you cant keep corruption away from power, ppl are sick and want to step on the lower one to get higher, what if there was no higher position, were all equal, me, megatron, doug, the black guy, that gay guy, were all children of god and deserve a chance to speak our minds and a modern military denies that fully, the path to enlightenment needs to be done differently this time, we tried it your way, you say it will end it a groups certain demise but i dont see how as long as everyone is equally trained, knows their own strength and keeps their confidence up. you say a military cant move forward like that, this isnt a military, this is a militia, full of civilians and old war veterans ( Thank you all for your service) full of scared women and children, who never thought theyd see the day of war, make everyone a leader, draw the fear out of everyone and give everyone a voice in every situation, if not it will end up like it did now and all of this would be for nothing, there will always be ppl out there in it for money so take away currency and dont tell me it cant be done because we have unlimited resources 60 miles above our heads but everyone is too focused on money and being better then the person next to them, we are given the chance to rebuild this world, just like our forefathers sat in a room and discussed the same things we are now, difference is they didnt have internet, they didnt have privileges like us so they had no choice but to create leadership and call on the french to teach them military tactics, they had no hope, no homes nothing so of course theyd lean towards hope, we have hope, we have the american dream we have home families everything, when that gets taken from us ppl will fight to get it back and they will be better off to lead themselves instead of waiting for that guy to bark orders and hopefully not get us killed, we all get a say before a move is made and if a majority wants to go left there is probably a reason for that, you have trust in your comrades, take the power away from the group and give it to a few men and it will end badly, might get us through the war but 100 yrs from now we will be putting our grand kids in the same position we are in now, we need to do it differently this time. it will be ok i guarantee that, God is on my side he is on our side, we can do anything together as long as we put our minds together, there is no limit to the beauty or destruction we can cause.

Edited May 4 by J SkriptXXIII

[Doug1943 1,614]

4 hours ago, Megatron said:

Exolains

Explains why are we are losing and becoming more and more irrelevant in the public's eye.  

 

If you think civil war in the United states wouldn't be gorilla and terrorist attacks....then man you need to look at all of the modern break downs.  In Iraq the locals we worked with would hunt their opponents on the days they didn't work with us.    I mean hunt to death.

No one knows the future, and in theory anything in possible.

My point is; I believe it's very unlikely that we will see a scenario in the US with a central government which is deeply unpopular with large segments of the population, but which has overwhelming conventional military power at its disposal to use against them.  But if we did see such a scanario -- say, a "dictatorship of the cities" (dominated by the Left) over the rural areas (dominated by the Right), with no pretense of democracy, so that the conservative half (or 40% or 1/3) of the population felt they had no recourse but to fight arms in hand -- and the military remained on the side of the Left -- then, yes, we might see something like guerilla war.

 

Although what you had in Iraq was not really guerilla war.   Every situation is different, and we have only a few words to try to describe hundreds of different situations, but here is  how I think these phrases should be used, for maxium clarity:

 

I think of armed conflict as a spectrum, a line. 

 

At one end of the line is conventional war.  Two states, each holding territory, fight it out.  There are armies, each holds a territory, with possible some disputed "no man's land" between them.   These armies either are, or are subject to, a state, a government. They, or their government, levy taxes, enact and enforce laws.   

 

At the other end of the spectrum, there is individual/small group terrorism.  There is a single government, a single army ... but these come under sporadic terrorist attack. The terrorists may also target civilians they think are sympathetic to their enemies, or just civilians in general to show that the government cannot protect them.  There may be areas where the population is sympathetic to the terrorists, but the area is notionally under the control of the government, and is generally under its control, at least during daylight.

 

In the middle, beween these two, is 'guerilla war'. The guerillas have a distinct territory, where they may have support. Sometimes they will stand and fight against incursions by their enemies into this territory. The official government may make incursions into this territory, even maintain bases there, but they know they are in hostile territory, 'bandit country': the Border in Ireland, before the Easter Agreement was an example; the Tamil-held part of Sri Lanka was another; parts of Vietnam, also.

 

But many, if not all war-situations, even if you can locate their main feature as somewhere on this spectrum, will also include elements of all the methods that shade off towards terrorism.  Even conventional war -- such as wWII -- included terrorist acts, such as the assassination of Nazi officials in occupied Czechoslovakia, or the partisan bands in the forests of BeloRussia.

 

For reasons there is not space to go into here, I don't see either terrorism or guerilla war in the proper sense of the term,  having much purchase in an American civil conflict.  I think the fascination with 'guerilla war' on the Right is a combination of ignorance about the reality of guerilla war  (which was tried extensively by dedicasted young Leftists in Latin America in the 1960s and 70s, seeking to reproduce the Cuban experience, with fatal results for the 'guerillas'),  and 'knowledge'  put in their heads by movies like Rambo and video games.  It has little basis in a realistic projection of what might happen in the US.  I could be wrong -- no one knows the future.

 

However, ignorance never did anyone any good, so we all should read up on this subject.   I suggest starting with Max Boot's  Invisible Armies.  He gives a pretty good description of 'guerilla war' over the centuries, and notes when the guerillas have won  (when they have had enduring mass support) and when they have lost (when they have not had, or have lost, mass support).  [Get it from Amazon for 12 bucks -- pass it around among your friends -- it would make a good center for discussion at a militia 'Staff College' session: https://www.amazon.com/Invisible-Armies-History-Guerrilla-Warfare-ebook/dp/B007P9M034/  ]  

===========================================================================================================================================================

A footnote on Iraq: we went into Iraq believing we would be welcomed as liberators.  Instead, we stuck ourselves into a three-way tribal split society  (Kurds, Sunnis, Shias) about which our leaders were grossly ignorant.  Even though theoretically the Shia's should have welcomed us as liberators from rule by the (minority) Sunnis, we then ran into Iraqi nationalism among them, led by Moqtada al Sad'r.  (A genuine nationalist, now makng trouble for Iran.) 

 

And we weren't really capable of nation-building anyway.  As Colin Powell said, armies are for breaking things and hurting people. That we do very well. But our military -- except for the Special Warfare units -- don't understand national feelings. No one understands other nations' national pride. I knew we were headed for trouble there when we entered Baghdad, and a Marine climbed up Saddam Hussein's statue and placed a big American flag over his face ... I thought, why not add an Israeli one, just to be perfect?  No doubt every  American patriot's heart swelled with pride, but what about Iraqi hearts?  "Aaaa... just a buncha sand n-words, we don't have to worry about hearts and minds, get 'em by the balls and hearts and minds will follow, ha ha!  OOOOOrah!" 

 

Yep, worked a treat.   And Abu Ghraib showed what a wonderful public relations sense we had. This sort of thing no doubt won us friends all over the Middle East:

 

:

 

 

 

 

Now I'm not blaming the ranks. This is how humans are, everywhere. We're a nasty hairless, tailless ape.

 

Some countries, like the US, have managed, over the centuries, to put a thin veneer of civilization onto their populations, and to build institutions at home that don't do this sort of thing too often   ....   but Original Sin is with us all.

 

I blame the people who sent our guys in to these snake pits.  (Where this sort of torture is normal.)  Sent us there to build nice pretty liberal democracies, making Iraq into another California, and Afghanistan into another Oregon.  Ha!    And I hope Mr Trump will get us out all of  them, without a civil war.

 

[J SkriptXXIII 18]

2 hours ago, John Last said:

 

 

Are we talking about unit leaders or rank...?  Believe it or not, there is a difference and switching the argument back and forth doesn't help.

you have a very good point, both i feel, you have a 1st sgt " oh im sgt your a cpl im smarter than you and know more than you because im a higher rank so were doing this my way" a fake leader, " oh im leading this group and there is a reason for that so i guess that means im smartest so were doing this my way", if you had a real leader to take charge of the situation and put everyone into perspective i feel itd be great but ppl dont do that, they get excited at the idea of being better than someone and the power i feel would go to their heads like it has 10 million times in the past, ppl cannot be trusted w leadership and rank I dont feel in anyway, id be too uncomfortable to follow someone because theyd tell me to go that way and id speak up as to why that wasnt a good idea and he would shoot my idea  down because he is in lead and i am not

[J SkriptXXIII 18]

Ill go as far to say this, we need to watch out in this group, war is on the horizon everyone needs to accept that now, sitting back w full peace and prosperity in mind will get us killed, the gov does not care about us, they dont want peace, they want money and power, i guarantee they are in this group watching every word we say, might be the man youd least expect, you could be following a corrupt lead for yrs and never know until he leads you straight into the enemy arms, this is a situation where we can trust nobody but need to trust everyone, please stop blowing off the idea of a revolution because it is here if you dont want to fight, if you wont stand up next to me in the face of overwhelming force and fight until your last breath then you dont need to be here, if you want to peacefully protest your way to victory you will lose and you need to go join another group w ppl who want to waist their time and effort, they want us to roam around holding signs over out heads that say "freedom" because its not doing anything, the ones telling you this wont happen and are still denying it will be the ones to turn their guns on you when the time is right be wary of that, it would suck if that man was given lead of the pack, nobody would be able to stand up and talk against him because he would silence them using his power, just like they have been doing.

[Doug1943 1,614]

There is certainly a problem about certain kinds of people wanting to treat the militia as a costume-party, and award themselves grand titles.  I'm always suspicious of people who call themselves by exalted military ranks, unless they actually were that rank in a real army, and even then, some modesty would be appropriate.

 

Miitia's should elect their leaderships.  As @JScriptXXIII said above they don't actually need rank, they need position: squad leader, platoon leader, XO, CO, etc. (if they get that large).  They probably don't need to make the"commissioned officer vs non-commissioned officer-enlisted man" distinction either, which is a holdover from the days of landowners-and-tenants.  Everyone knows that a green young Shavetail just out of College ROTC knows nothing, compared to a first sergeant with fifteen years time in and three tours in the sand boxes.  Why reproduce this artificial distinction?

 

There is a critical difference beween a militia, and professional army: the professional army can use compulsion: when you enlist, you become subject to the UCMJ. You can't just say, "Hey guys, I've got to watch the game on Saturday, I won't be able to come on bivuouac."  And, besides legal compulsion, being in the military offers benefits: a paycheck, and guaranteed medical care, etc.  The militia cannot do this.

 

A militia is voluntary. There is a totally different psychological dynamic. Keeping one together and growing it, is more like running a company, or a church.  Because a militia is necessarily more 'democratic' than a professioal military, it has to be more discriminating on who it accepts as members.  A professional military can suffer a certain number of crazies, white supremacists, conspiracy theorists -- they're under the command of other people, and can't do too much harm.  A militia is different.

[Doug1943 1,614]

26 minutes ago, J SkriptXXIII said:

Ill go as far to say this, we need to watch out in this group, war is on the horizon everyone needs to accept that now, sitting back w full peace and prosperity in mind will get us killed, the gov does not care about us, they dont want peace, they want money and power, i guarantee they are in this group watching every word we say, might be the man youd least expect, you could be following a corrupt lead for yrs and never know until he leads you straight into the enemy arms, this is a situation where we can trust nobody but need to trust everyone, please stop blowing off the idea of a revolution because it is here if you dont want to fight, if you wont stand up next to me in the face of overwhelming force and fight until your last breath then you dont need to be here, if you want to peacefully protest your way to victory you will lose and you need to go join another group w ppl who want to waist their time and effort, they want us to roam around holding signs over out heads that say "freedom" because its not doing anything, the ones telling you this wont happen and are still denying it will be the ones to turn their guns on you when the time is right be wary of that, it would suck if that man was given lead of the pack, nobody would be able to stand up and talk against him because he would silence them using his power, just like they have been doing.

Here is the problem:  at the moment, the overwhelming majority of the American people do not agree with us.

 

I'm not just talking about the Left, or the fifty million people who vote Democratic.  This is also true of the great majority of conservatives.

So the immediate task is to change the minds of a significant number of those conservatives.

Mind-changing is done two ways:

 

(1) By human effort: letters to the editor, posts on public forums, discussions with friends, public meetings,  running for office and taking part in debates on TV, radio talk shows.  This sort of thing can convey a set of complex ideas to a relatively small number of people.  Thus the militia movement, today a movement of a few tens of thousands,  ought to be trying to double its numbers this year, using these methods, because it has been helped by the second great changer-of-minds,

 

(2) Events:  Events change minds: the Stamp Act, the Boston Massacre -- these were worth all the pamphlets by Tom Paine put together -- although those pamphlets were needed.  This Chinese Communist Virus is an enormous opportunity for the Militia Movement to go out and say:  "See -- we have to prepare. We can't trust government to always take care of us.  And we CAN trust it to try to expand its dictatorial powers even when these are not needed."  

 

Here's what we need right now:  a national network of people -- not more than a dozen -- with some background in writing, in making Powerpoints, in doing public relations -- to prepare a set of materials to made available free to every militia unit, around which a recruitment and expansion-of-influence campaign can be run.   We need a set of public lectures around Powerpoint slides; a set of model press releases; a set of model recruitment leaflets  (including some on how to 'prep', how to acquire a weapon and training in its use, how to learn first aid); guidance on how to run a public meeting; how to organize a demonstration; and similar things.  We have all this talent already -- it's just isolated, spread around the country, and unfocussed.

 

 

[J SkriptXXIII 18]

55 minutes ago, Doug1943 said:

Here is the problem:  at the moment, the overwhelming majority of the American people do not agree with us.

 

I'm not just talking about the Left, or the fifty million people who vote Democratic.  This is also true of the great majority of conservatives.

So the immediate task is to change the minds of a significant number of those conservatives.

Mind-changing is done two ways:

 

(1) By human effort: letters to the editor, posts on public forums, discussions with friends, public meetings,  running for office and taking part in debates on TV, radio talk shows.  This sort of thing can convey a set of complex ideas to a relatively small number of people.  Thus the militia movement, today a movement of a few tens of thousands,  ought to be trying to double its numbers this year, using these methods, because it has been helped by the second great changer-of-minds,

 

(2) Events:  Events change minds: the Stamp Act, the Boston Massacre -- these were worth all the pamphlets by Tom Paine put together -- although those pamphlets were needed.  This Chinese Communist Virus is an enormous opportunity for the Militia Movement to go out and say:  "See -- we have to prepare. We can't trust government to always take care of us.  And we CAN trust it to try to expand its dictatorial powers even when these are not needed."  

 

Here's what we need right now:  a national network of people -- not more than a dozen -- with some background in writing, in making Powerpoints, in doing public relations -- to prepare a set of materials to made available free to every militia unit, around which a recruitment and expansion-of-influence campaign can be run.   We need a set of public lectures around Powerpoint slides; a set of model press releases; a set of model recruitment leaflets  (including some on how to 'prep', how to acquire a weapon and training in its use, how to learn first aid); guidance on how to run a public meeting; how to organize a demonstration; and similar things.  We have all this talent already -- it's just isolated, spread around the country, and unfocussed.

 

 

I can understand that, I admit I do have one goal in mind, while others see and have different futures and fates, were all destined to be here for something and if what you said is your something then that is beautiful. I agree we need writers, artist to live on, ppl to write history and the truth, ppl we trust to not lie and shame it. We also need warriors and the perfect warrior is a leader, if everyone was on that level we would be unstoppable no matter our numbers as long as our ideas and our heart live on in someone else. Its hard to get a mass amount of people on that same level but we dont have a mass amount, maybe our numbers is our strength. There is strength in numbers but too much of anything can be a bad thing, your numbers can be used against you, even if the group of writers and artist gets corrupted by the enemy. Im sorry I undermined the idea of peace but dont take it harshly I want peace I just feel its impossible. I live my days in anger, angry that i have to live in todays society and live by their rules. Watch everyone walk by blindly and happily get screwed every waking moment. Im not meant to live in that world im meant for something bigger thats why im here on this page, thats why i feel so strongly about everything, I feel God has spoken to me and he showed me this path and gave me these thoughts for a reason just like @ Megatron , I will take fate and reason more into consideration but more people are going to die then anyone can think, I just had a friend pass from the virus, 22 yrs old, younger than me. A week ago everyone in my town ignored the issue and said it was a hoax making fun of people in masks and now my friend is dead, my grandfather has internal bleeding and cant go to the hospital because of the virus, I live in the poorest county in Florida and its in almost every town, this was planted and planned and the only thing that makes sense about it all is if you read agenda 21 NWO  NWC one world government. Its coming, I feel its here and it will be devastating. Im happy to be apart of this conversation because it may just be a historic one. Im here for a reason, sent here practically, use me, use Megatron there is a reason we think the way we do and a reason we are here.

[Doug1943 1,614]

2 hours ago, J SkriptXXIII said:

I can understand that, I admit I do have one goal in mind, while others see and have different futures and fates, were all destined to be here for something and if what you said is your something then that is beautiful. I agree we need writers, artist to live on, ppl to write history and the truth, ppl we trust to not lie and shame it. We also need warriors and the perfect warrior is a leader, if everyone was on that level we would be unstoppable no matter our numbers as long as our ideas and our heart live on in someone else. Its hard to get a mass amount of people on that same level but we dont have a mass amount, maybe our numbers is our strength. There is strength in numbers but too much of anything can be a bad thing, your numbers can be used against you, even if the group of writers and artist gets corrupted by the enemy. Im sorry I undermined the idea of peace but dont take it harshly I want peace I just feel its impossible. I live my days in anger, angry that i have to live in todays society and live by their rules. Watch everyone walk by blindly and happily get screwed every waking moment. Im not meant to live in that world im meant for something bigger thats why im here on this page, thats why i feel so strongly about everything, I feel God has spoken to me and he showed me this path and gave me these thoughts for a reason just like @ Megatron , I will take fate and reason more into consideration but more people are going to die then anyone can think, I just had a friend pass from the virus, 22 yrs old, younger than me. A week ago everyone in my town ignored the issue and said it was a hoax making fun of people in masks and now my friend is dead, my grandfather has internal bleeding and cant go to the hospital because of the virus, I live in the poorest county in Florida and its in almost every town, this was planted and planned and the only thing that makes sense about it all is if you read agenda 21 NWO  NWC one world government. Its coming, I feel its here and it will be devastating. Im happy to be apart of this conversation because it may just be a historic one. Im here for a reason, sent here practically, use me, use Megatron there is a reason we think the way we do and a reason we are here.

 

Skript: Well, here's the thing.  This has been developing for the last fifty years, ever since the alienated "Children of the 60s", who had been brought up to believe that America was Perfect, found out that it wasn't -- and decided that must therefore be irredeemable -- the Howard Zinn thesis. They went into government, in big corporations, into NGOs, and above all, into teaching, and training teachers.  We now see the result: a generation, at the elite colleges, which does not honor the flag, and sneers at patriotism. And this is seeping outward.

 

Their attitude happens to correspond with big changes in the world.  The "New World Order", thirty years ago, actually meant benevolent American domination of the world, leading all nations into free trade and the development of liberal institutions.  It didn't work out that way, and now we are on our way down, relatively speaking, mired in unwinnable wars and interventions thousands of miles from home, making unnecessary enemies of dangerous powers, and suffering from severe internal social decay.

 

So we have a fight on our hands, no question.  It may be the case, at the end, that the weapon of criticism will have to yield to the criticism of weapons. I fervently hope not.  But if it does, we must be prepared.

But until this is forced on us, we have to follow the peaceful road.  To steal a phrase from a great Russian patriot a hundred and fifty years ago, we must try to open men's eyes, not tear them out of their heads.

This means hard, determined political work -- every bit as exhausting as low-crawling 250 meters with a full field pack, or doing 25 chin ups. 

 

And as we do it, we have to avoid being provoked by infiltrators into premature action.

 

If you set up an ambush for an enemy column or patrol, you have to be VERY careful to make sure the least experienced of your riflemen waits for the command to open fire (usually given by detonation of the Claymores or whatever they use today, or firing of the machine gun). If you don't do this, you risk that one of them, out of excitement, will shoot at the point man as soon as he sees him, instead of letting the point man come through, so you catch the main body of the enemy in the kill zone. 

 

That's our problem today. There will be events -- like the 'lockdown' which will be provoking.  Respond with angry, but peaceful, protests. There will be people saying, "What are you waiting for, start shooting now" --maybe not in so many words, they're too clever for that, but aiming for that result. 

 

At this point in time, an armed response -- I mean trigger-pulling -- would be suicide, and anyone arguing for it, directly or otherwise, is doing the work of the enemy.  We have to choose our words carefully, and be as gentle as doves, while being as wise as serpents.

 

As for this Chinese Communist Virus -- there is a mass of contradictory, confusing information swirling around out there ... all the way from it's really not very lethal and is being used as an excuse to kill our economy, on the one hand, to your own experience, on the other.  Well ... war is like that.  We seldom know the full enemy Order of Battle, or his plans, or even our own strengths and weaknesses.  It's called "the fog of war".  And yet that's where we have to fight.

 

 

 

[J SkriptXXIII 18]

1 hour ago, Liberty Prime said:

This is an issue. That idea is so immensely unpopular you are creating your own opposition.

NWO UN theories just turn the Militia into a ghost adventures to the average person. They aren’t wrong either.

The UN NWO isn’t answering the simple problems people see.   

 

Organizations like Antifa do well because they can point to an actual person and call them racist fascists. 

As opposed to several factions within the militia movement that subscribe to more grand “conspiracy” theory.

 

People dont need 10 years of research and a grand scheme to understand authoritarianism  is bad. 

 

They are looking for answers to why the gov believes it has the authority to dictate which business is open. Why the gov can tell you have to interact with others on private property. Why they have the authority to dictate what posture is acceptable in public places.

 

The agenda 21 NWo Un theories don’t answer any of that just provides a perpetual  war that can never be overcome.

 

My personal belief is that those theories are to create controlled opposition, and exist purely to keep the size small so we can never actually accomplish actual change.

thats a really good point, ive actually said that for a long time too, they know what we are saying they know we can see the entire plan so why not make stuff up to confuse the masses making most sound insane, in reality you dont know the overall plan or what is going on but if you look into youd see that we are seeing it play out in real life, you say theories but its not a theory in any way, A theory is a group of linked ideas intended to explain something. A theory provides a framework for explaining observations. The explanations are based on assumptions. From the assumptions follows a number of possible hypotheses. They can be tested to provide support for, or challenge, the theory. Thats a theory, but there is living proof of the NWO all over the internet, men and women have wrote about it for years, to say its a theory at this point is ludicrous and literally every question you asked about the gov can be answered through the NWO its total population control, you choose to ignore it and call us whatever name you want but at the end of the day you will be proven wrong and i will not be there to hold your hand threw it. We will never experience change because ppl are too distracted on everyday life, following societies path not a care until they are directly affected, that means our numbers will not grow until the gov truly proves they are up no good and that wont happen they are too smart and the plan is too perfect, im just saying dont write it off completely.

[J SkriptXXIII 18]

46 minutes ago, Doug1943 said:

 

Skript: Well, here's the thing.  This has been developing for the last fifty years, ever since the alienated "Children of the 60s", who had been brought up to believe that America was Perfect, found out that it wasn't -- and decided that must therefore be irredeemable -- the Howard Zinn thesis. They went into government, in big corporations, into NGOs, and above all, into teaching, and training teachers.  We now see the result: a generation, at the elite colleges, which does not honor the flag, and sneers at patriotism. And this is seeping outward.

 

Their attitude happens to correspond with big changes in the world.  The "New World Order", thirty years ago, actually meant benevolent American domination of the world, leading all nations into free trade and the development of liberal institutions.  It didn't work out that way, and now we are on our way down, relatively speaking, mired in unwinnable wars and interventions thousands of miles from home, making unnecessary enemies of dangerous powers, and suffering from severe internal social decay.

 

So we have a fight on our hands, no question.  It may be the case, at the end, that the weapon of criticism will have to yield to the criticism of weapons. I fervently hope not.  But if it does, we must be prepared.

But until this is forced on us, we have to follow the peaceful road.  To steal a phrase from a great Russian patriot a hundred and fifty years ago, we must try to open men's eyes, not tear them out of their heads.

This means hard, determined political work -- every bit as exhausting as low-crawling 250 meters with a full field pack, or doing 25 chin ups. 

 

And as we do it, we have to avoid being provoked by infiltrators into premature action.

 

If you set up an ambush for an enemy column or patrol, you have to be VERY careful to make sure the least experienced of your riflemen waits for the command to open fire (usually given by detonation of the Claymores or whatever they use today, or firing of the machine gun). If you don't do this, you risk that one of them, out of excitement, will shoot at the point man as soon as he sees him, instead of letting the point man come through, so you catch the main body of the enemy in the kill zone. 

 

That's our problem today. There will be events -- like the 'lockdown' which will be provoking.  Respond with angry, but peaceful, protests. There will be people saying, "What are you waiting for, start shooting now" --maybe not in so many words, they're too clever for that, but aiming for that result. 

 

At this point in time, an armed response -- I mean trigger-pulling -- would be suicide, and anyone arguing for it, directly or otherwise, is doing the work of the enemy.  We have to choose our words carefully, and be as gentle as doves, while being as wise as serpents.

 

As for this Chinese Communist Virus -- there is a mass of contradictory, confusing information swirling around out there ... all the way from it's really not very lethal and is being used as an excuse to kill our economy, on the one hand, to your own experience, on the other.  Well ... war is like that.  We seldom know the full enemy Order of Battle, or his plans, or even our own strengths and weaknesses.  It's called "the fog of war".  And yet that's where we have to fight.

 

I completely understand, every bit of info about the virus is very wishy washy and hear say, kind of all over the place. I get what your saying and I feel im being misunderstood, im not saying we do any kind of attack rn, im saying we need to be prepared for when we need to attack, or when we need to defend, soon ppl like us may be seen as pariahs, if martial law is issued nationally I will not be apart of anything they do ill go to the woods and live on my own, while everything gets worse and worse ppl get more reliant on the gov and the gov tells them ppl like me and you, the ones that would bug out are the enemy and theyd make us take the hate turning the masses against us, i talk about peace no longer being an option but i dont mean violence is now, that time comes later when the economy falls and society begins panicking we should be the ones banded together helping as many as we can to be self reliant for when the military comes in they wont need there help theyll turn to us and instead of giving to them we teach them how to give to themselves. Protect them from the looters and rioters, I feel things will get to the point that quarantine zones will be opened for healthy or sick and inside those zone they will making the the healthy sicker and if you dont go in those camps your marked as an enemy, that will be the time for violence,  you changed my view though with peaceful protests I said they were useless but you described it to where its not so useless, I get that completely, there is always time to open mens eyes and rn is the perfect time. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 4 by J SkriptXXIII

[Doug1943 1,614]

Okay, I understand where you're coming from.

 

But ... I believe that Hollywood, via movies and TV serials, has filled our heads with a lot of scary images, that are not likely to happen.

Back in the 1950s, America went through a  VERY anti-Communist phase: some Communist Party leaders went to prison, for example.  So many of them, and other Leftist, believed that "America was going fascist" -- soon, there would be concentration camps full of leftists and liberals, and America would become like Nazi Germany.

 

Didn't happen.

 

Then came the 60s and 70s -- sit-ins and marchs in South in the first part and middle of the 60s, overtaken by Vietnam, with lots of unrest, marches, shootings, bombings ... and the reelection of Richard Nixon in 1972 == again, the Left said,  "Oh oh oh ... Fascism is coming!"

 

Didn't happen.

 

We heard it again in the 80s and 90s,. from both Right and Left -- Reagan is fascism,  FEMA camps are being prepared for us!   Etc etc etc.

 

Didn't happen.

 

Life is usually not so excting as that.  Hollywood has to make things exciting! 

 

However, there IS reason to believe we're going to see a lot of social unrest, harsh economic conditions, and real social strains on the American social fabric in the future. World events will cause this.

 

To meet this, we must be prepared.  I don't mean ONLY have  a year's supply of food  and 2000 rounds of ammo -- I mean being organized, with others.

 

Anyone who thinks they can 'live off the land'  or even hide out 'in the woods' ... should try it.   We will live -- or not -- in our individual communities, with our fellow patriots, our fellow Americans.  It's our job to

lead the way, to get them organized for what may come.  In essence, it's no different now than it was in 1750 ... we must hang together, to avoid hanging separately. 

 

Right now we're too small to influence anything  That must change.  We must grow. Events will help us grow, if we are prepared to take advantage of them.

 

 

[Megatron 1,175]

With that train of thought you will be taxed to death and have your guns taken.

[Doug1943 1,614]

I think we can follow the example of the patriots of the 18th Century:  they had local militias, and also local political groups. When things began to come to a head, they elected delegates to state-wide assemblies, and then these elected delegates to a national assembly, so that finally, they had someone who could speak with authority for the whole nation.

 

But ... before that time, we do need what I would call nationwide-service groups. These would be groups -- communicating via the internet, not all physically together -- which carried out certain 'service tasks' for local militias.

 

For example, two or three people with the right software skills ought to be able to make a web-scraper to which you could submit someone's name and other details, and it would run a background check from Open Source Intelligence (OSINT), checking the publically-available criminal records from all fifty states, etc.  (If one of these people had a Private Investigator's License, that would be even better.)  Then militia units could submit names of prospective new members and, hopefully, eliminate the obvious criminals,  and establish the bona fides of the prospective member's ID. It would not be perfect but it might help.

 

Another group could assemble people with some legal skills, to keep an eye on legal threats to the militia (both directly, and indirectly via anti-2A legislation. YouTreadYouDead has already built a very useful piece of software for checking on gun legislation in each state.

 

Another group could work on building state-specific databases of useful contacts. (I've done this for Tennessee: if anyone is interested in seeing what I have put together, PM me and I'll get a copy to you.) Basically, this would be locations and other information about hostile groups; and the same for potentially-friendly allies: VFW and American Legion posts; local Republican party officials; Libertarian and Constitution Party officials;  and also the names and emails addresses of all local media: newspapers, TV stations, and radio shows, along with, where available, the names and email addresses of journalists associated with them.  This also includes the name of all shooting ranges, and gun stores, which might take a stack of leaflets announcing militia activities. Every militia unit of any size should have a publicity officer, who tries to make sure that the unit gets favorable publicity.

 

Another group could follow the news, and put out model press releases, outlines of public talks, set of PowerPoint slide shows, and videos. We already have someone on this site who makes really good videos. His work needs to be more well known.

 

Another group could be 'keyboard warriors',  getting onto YouTube comment sections systematically, and talking up the militita unit, giving this website's address as a place to come to find likeminded people in your area, etc.

 

These 'national service' groups would not speak for the militia movement -- they would be voluntary, with no more structure needed than a chariman. They could meet via Zoom or some similar software, and work out assignments.

 

If anyone is interested in any of these ideas, PM me and let's talk about it.

[Megatron 1,175]

The problem is nothing will unite this country anymore.   We have a similar problem that Rome had.  So many different types of people who refuse to melt into American beliefs and ideals.    They all want to escape Mexico but have mini Mexico here.     You cant unite people who refuse the basics of this country.     

 

It's not just left vs right but many different fractions and most just want to be left alone.    I say leave the big cities like Milwaukee,  Chicago to themselves and avoid them.  Create pockets of victory with like minded people and we end up fracturing off.

[Doc Strange 54]

On 5/3/2020 at 3:38 AM, Doc Strange said:

There has never been a time that we’ve lived through quite like this where Americans, regardless of race or political affiliation can feel that a storm is on the horizon! They may not know exactly what’s happening but they can feel the bad mojo! That being said I believe if ever a moment existed in time for open enrollment/recruitment or publication of our ideas or  mission statement THE TIME IS NOW!

Gentlemen I don’t want to agree or disagree with any of you because everyone may be right. I will say that whether this comes for us now or whether it comes for our children or grandchildren it cannot hurt to prep to train for that exact event. If that day is a bonus chance favors the prepared mind. If not then we pass on the training and skills to our children and our grandchildren. If we sit idly by and not do anything the one post that I read said someone’s going to get scared or trigger finger start shooting prematurely was absolutely correct. Training does not take that necessarily away but it does help. If there is no training to be completed or no one is going to be organizing a training, I can be a sheep waiting for slaughter inside of my home. I’m not giving up just stating fact! I will fight and die by each one of your sides if necessary because the future of my family depends on it! I do not give a shit about a leadership role or how many feathers are in my hat But I do care whether my name lives on through future generations and what quality of life they will have! I believe once everyone’s had their peace to say about this, We need to get on with the work and get the training! Hope I didn’t offend anyone if so I apologize to you in advance!

[Megatron 1,175]

Actually training or conditioning like the military does will take away the majority of people who fail in combat.  Ltc Grossman wrote a excellent few books on it.  On killing and on combat

[Doug1943 1,614]

If you look at modern history, you will see a pattern, which Lenin (supposedly) summed up this: decades can pass where nothing happens ... and then weeks can pass where decades happen.

 

Because yesterday was like today and today will probably be like tomorrow ... it's easy to get discouraged, if you want to wake people up.  It's all too easy to think, "They're all a bunch of sheep ... it's hopeless."

 

But a study of history will show that all nations go through long periods of 'normalcy' ... not much happens ... and then ... BOOM!  The Old Mole of history was grubbing away below the surface, unseen ... and he suddenly appears.

 

Consider our own country: after WWI, we had a decade of economic growth and prosperity.  Then .. the Great Depression hit.  The Communist Party USA had, during the 1920s, been a tiny group of just a few thousand members, most of them not even born in the USA. It had no influence to speak of.

 

Then came the Depression.  In the course of ten years, the Communists grew by an order of magnitude, with a membership approaching 100 000, and maybe ten times that number of sympathyzers.  They led a General Strike in San Francisco in 1934 and established the International Longshoreman's and Warehouseman's Union on the West Coast.  (That year, there were two other citywide General Strikes led by communists of a different sort.)  They played a major role in organizing the Congress of Industrial Organizations (the CIO) and ended up in the national leadership of 11 national unions, about 1/3 of the CIO membership. They attracted to themselves thousands of idealistic young people on college campuses (some of whom became spies), and hundreds of college professors and teachers.

 

And they changed their tactics: in the 1920s and early 30s, they were very open about what they wanted: a Soviet America. They considered liberals and Socialists as enemies. They tried to create 'red Unions', instead of working from within the  established unions. Hitler's victory in German in 1933 changed all that. By 1936 they were draping themselve in the flag, and trying to create a Popular Front to bring in liberals ... and it worked! They created dozens of 'front organizations', dedicated to good causes, run by them in the background, but bringing in large numbers of non-Communists.

 

The point is ... they might have been discouraged in the 1920s. But they held out ... and things changed dramatically.

 

The same thing happened to an organization at the other side of the political spectrum: the German Nazis ran in the 1928 elections and got less than 3% of the vote. Then came the Great Depression, and five years later, they were getting more than ten times that number of votes.

 

Both of these groups had a hard core of dedicated members in the 1920s. They accumulated years of experience during that time -- how to organize a meeting, hold a demonstration, put out a newsletter. When the Great Depression came, they had a cadre organization that could grow swiftly.

 

Now .. the militia movement is NOT an extremist movement like the Nazis and Communists were!  It doesn't want to turn society inside-out, but rather to defend the original idea of America, a society with limited government.  But there are lessons to be learned: namely, events change minds.  You can write a thousand letters to the editor defending the Second Amendment  and maybe influence one or two dozen people ... but one big riot where people are dragged out of their cars and beaten to death on live TV, will change the attitudes towards gun ownership of millions.  When that happens, a 'hard-core' organization which is prepared to spring into action, to hold meetings on gun ownership -- what to buy, how to use -- to run classes in firearms use and safety --  that organization can grow dramatically in numbers and influence.

 

 

[Todd A. Slee 1,466]

On 5/4/2020 at 6:06 AM, Doug1943 said:

It may be the case that  "where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them",  You don't have to have a big, impressive church in order to be a Christian.

 

But this indifference to size and organization and assets does not apply to most human endeavors, and certainly not to the military profession.

 

It's not just that, as Napoleon said, "God is on the side of the biggest battalions", although that is, everything else being equal (which it never is), certainly true.

 

There are two other reasons why numbers are important, besides the general desirability of outnumbering the enemy:

 

(1) Numbers allow specialization: it allows some people to become very good at one thing, and others to become very good at another, and so on from two things to dozens, hundreds of things -- better than anyone would be if everyone tried to master everything. It's the secret of economics: specialization and the divsion of labor. (See here: https://fee.org/articles/specialization-and-wealth/ )

 

There may be some super-people who can simultaneously master the arts of amateur (and other) radio communication, combat injury medicine, a high degree of marksmanship, gunsmithing, automobile mechanics repair, construction engineering, photographic interpretation, cooking and everything associated with it (food storage) ... while also acquiring their Private Pilot's License and a degree in law.  I've never met one but maybe one or two exist. 

 

Most of us are doing well if we can get halfway-competent in one of these things, and a very basic competence in a few others.  But to get specialists in several dozen skills ... you need several dozen (more than that, in real life) people.

 

A real military force has a large degree of specialization and division of labor.  At the lowest level, the standard infantry tactic of 'fire and maneuver' requires a (trading back and forth) 'division of labor' on the battlefield. (And it takes numbers to be able to do this -- two fireteams at a minimum.)  But more importantly, the soldier with the rifle on the front line, has a 'tail' of a dozen others behind him, to make sure he is fed, re-supplied, transported, given medical care if needed, given heavy-weapons support if needed, and is the beneficiary of an intelligence-gathering and interpreting network. 

 

This is the sort of thing you never see in video games or Hollywood productions, because it doesn't sell. And, unfortunately, it's from the entertainment industry that most of us have learned how to think about the world.  Rambo is the model.  I don't believe in conspiracy theories, but if I did, I would believe that Hollywood did this deliberately, to misguide patriots.

 

(2)  Two or three people, or even a million cells of the same, cannot defeat an enemy army and then take political power and establish, or re-establish the Constitutional Order.  A small 'cell' of a few people can act as a 'Resistance', as happened in WWII. They can contribute to tying down enemy troops who would otherwise be deployed elsewhere. 

 

But ... the Resistance only made sense, in the expectation of an eventual invasion by a real army, which would defeat the enemy and establish its own state (government). And  'a real army' means large numbers and a hierarchy of command.  As much as the libertarian/anarchist/rebel in all of us may wish that this were not so, it is so. There must be a body with political authority.

 

So, as  a supplementary force, a small 'invisible' cell is not without its uses, IF it is in communication with, and under the command of, a 'real' military. Other than this, it's just a minor nuisance to the enemy, and might even be harmful to its own cause.

 

However, we should be aware of the 'security' concerns that many people have, which prevent them from, or make them cautious about, getting involved with the militia movement.

 

These concerns are real, and need to be addressed in several different ways. But this post is too long ... so 'security'  must be left for later.

 

 

 

 

     Good posting, and everyone has made good points.

     I tend to think that regardless of numbers, there needs to be at least specialty teams, consisting of skills which both the SF has, the FBI anti-terrorist units have, and the CIS regular and anti-terrorist units have.

     We don't have to be as finely honed as them to succeed. Exa.ple, my karate Sensei knows a wheel chair bound martial artist. Hr's great with a bow (long stick), and maneuvering. They say he can whip or keep at bay 2 or 3 assailants; i.e., strategy and tactic can overcome lack.

     Human are not near as wily as the fox or weasel, or mink. But we can trap them by learning about them and applying tactic.

     Being as effective in battle as Rambo can be a goal, though it seldom happens so well; as good at figuring things out as Sherlock Holmes; as good at intel gathering as the Mossad, and so forth.

     The SF, I think, rotate leading a unit, so if one or two does, anyone else can lead. The FBI take turns commanding operations. I've actually lead 2 or 3, couple hour long ones. Was kinda odd commanding higher ranking lifers, but it went okay (I have no desire to be a leader in the militia, just implement my skills as needed). The effectiveness is, whatever expertise someone has, then they lead in a pertinent situation, at least as advisor; i.e., you pick someone to lead who has skill in urban warfare, jungle fighting, mountain excursions, woods battle, water escapades, intelligence gathering, investigating, disguise work, public relations, food prepping, first aid, computer network security, research, etc. Each person together makes a complete puzzle create a picture.

     The biggest key is COMMUNICATION, sound leadership of some status, and cohesion.

     One book I read about Vietnam, this new Lt. or Captain arrived. The unit had went thru 2 or 3, fresh out of school, no combat experience, who had gotten themselves and others killed, by not listening to the battle veterans. But that new one, he told the platoon sergeant, something like, 'I'm in charge here in camp. When we go out to the field, I am under you, like a private'. They did well.

[Doug1943 1,614]

A suggestion:  don't try to reproduce on a national, or even a state, scale,  what does work on a local scale.

 

A serious local militia unit has to have a leadership.  In the normal course of events, this leadership will emerge naturally, from the people who have had serious experience  -- not only military.  Just as the militias of the past elected their own leaders.

 

And although a militia is a voluntary group, if it's a serious one, its members will try to be part of a disciplined body, and follow their elected leaders -- until these leaders prove incompetent.  But in this a militia unit is no different from any other voluntary body of people.

 

But ... a local unit is made up of people who know each other, or can get to know each other, and therefore trust each other.

 

But a 'statewide' or 'national' body is different. It needs a different kind of cohesion.  If that can be achieved, great!

 

But if it can't, for whatever reason, then ... why not think about forming statewide, or national, associations of people who are NOT 'leaders' of local groups, but rather 'providers' of services.  For instance, every state could have a statewide website that simply listed every (real) militia group in the state, and possibly posted news of events -- like a demonstration at the state capitol -- of interest to local groups.  It wouldn't try to speak for them, much less tell them what do to. It would just be a sort of electronic bulletin board.

 

Similarly, on a national scale, there ought to be associations of people with expertise in things like public relations, or using OSINT to weed out bad actors,  providing a set of Powerpoint slides for talks given by militia members, or giving general legal advice.  That way, the movement could get the advantage of specialization and the division of labor, without arguments about who is the Big Man in charge.