Communication (HAM)

[Cb85 136]

13 minutes ago, MBR said:

However keep in mind while MURS can be used for all operations Ham frequencies cannot be used for any form of commercial activity. 

 

Disaster relief communications legal for Ham frequencies, coordination of Militia operations probably not.

 

A Militia would be much better served with a Part 90 License that allows any form of legal for, or not for profit communications and output powers up to 110 watts is allowed, versus 2 watts which has very limited range.

 

Also Part 90 communications can be scrambled and or codes used, which is strictly forbidden on Ham frequencies. 

 

 

It's also illegal to use more than 4 watts on cb.... but every one does. Frs is not allowed for business but tons do.

if asked just say we are practicing for emergencies. Don't be stupid and say your a militia on the air. That's good practice at all times btw.

 

if it's not stated that it's illegal it's not illegal   Nothing under murs use states militias can't use it.

[EricB1956 50]

A militia would be better served by using as many forms of communication as possible. Don't set yourself short. If you need to get a license then get one. Keep all avenues open, that way you've always got a backup. 

 

 

Hell, I even think learning smoke signals is a good idea, never know when it would come in handy.

[Skillet 1,724]

1 minute ago, EricB1956 said:

A militia would be better served by using as many forms of communication as possible. Don't set yourself short. If you need to get a license then get one. Keep all avenues open, that way you've always got a backup. 

 

 

Hell, I even think learning smoke signals is a good idea, never know when it would come in handy.

 

PACE is where it's at.

Primary

Alternate

Contingency

Emergency

[MBR 224]

35 minutes ago, Cb85 said:

It's also illegal to use more than 4 watts on cb.... but every one does. Frs is not allowed for business but tons do.

if asked just say we are practicing for emergencies. Don't be stupid and say your a militia on the air. That's good practice at all times btw.

 

if it's not stated that it's illegal it's not illegal   Nothing under murs use states militias can't use it.

 

I never said it was but under Ham radio the rules are different and Hams are known to take the rules way over the top.

 

The problem with MURS is low power which becomes useless when range is needed, and one doesn't need to say their a Militia on the air for someone monitoring the comms to figure out what is going on.

 

And just because tons of idiots are doing something wrong or a rule violation is not a good reason to do the same.

 

The last thing is a Militia needs is to be used as an example, plus do you really want ANTIFA to figure what we are up to? 

 

Get real folks, do it right or don't do it at all.  

[Cb85 136]

9 minutes ago, MBR said:

 

I never said it was but under Ham radio the rules are different and Hams are known to take the rules way over the top.

 

The problem with MURS is low power which becomes useless when range is needed, and one doesn't need to say their a Militia on the air for someone monitoring the comms to figure out what is going on.

 

And just because tons of idiots are doing something wrong or a rule violation is not a good reason to do the same.

 

The last thing is a Militia needs is to be used as an example, plus do you really want ANTIFA to figure what we are up to? 

 

Get real folks, do it right or don't do it at all.  

Hams have always taken emergencies very seriously and don't care who you are. 

Maybe in California they take it over the top but not in my kneck of the woods. Your generalizing way much.  

Most hams are old school and if the world is burning they are gonna want to help out.  

 

 

Antifa have no idea what we are up to they are just pawns being used.  

Its the elite running their show.

additionally I'm talking bout peace time use for legal practice.  Not war time. 

Edited July 21 by Cb85

[MBR 224]

16 minutes ago, Cb85 said:

Hams have always taken emergencies very seriously and don't care who you are. 

Maybe in California they take it over the top but not in my kneck of the woods. Your generalizing way much.  

Most hams are old school and if the world is burning they are gonna want to help out.  

 

 

Antifa have no idea what we are up to they are just pawns being used.  

Its the elite running their show.

additionally I'm talking bout peace time use for legal practice.  Not war time. 

I'm not in California but have been dealing with Hams for over three decades, so I have an idea how they think, and they will not violate the FCC regulations, you want them to handle traffic it better damm well be non-commeccial traffic. 

 

And you truly don't understand ANTIFA, they are not stupid, they jammed police frequencies in New York and I can guarantee you they monitor the police frequencies where ever they can.   

 

If their handlers discover a Militia is a force to be reckoned with, you can bet your ass they will be doing everything they can to monitor what we are up to and working around that requires the flexibility to move from channel to channel and either encrypt comms or use codes they they cannot discover on the net. 

 

 

 

 

[Cb85 136]

11 minutes ago, MBR said:

I'm not in California but have been dealing with Hams for over three decades, so I have an idea how they think, and they will not violate the FCC regulations, you want them to handle traffic it better damm well be non-commeccial traffic. 

 

And you truly don't understand ANTIFA, they are not stupid, they jammed police frequencies in New York and I can guarantee you they monitor the police frequencies where ever they can.   

 

If their handlers discover a Militia is a force to be reckoned with, you can bet your ass they will be doing everything they can to monitor what we are up to and working around that requires the flexibility to move from channel to channel and either encrypt comms or use codes they they cannot discover on the net. 

 

 

 

 

Nope your missing the whole point. 

Antifa isn't jamming stuff some one more intelligent gave them the gear to do that most likely.

 

and I'm talking about intro level stuff for small groups who have no coms right now. 

 

And the hams I'm talking bout in my original post are not run of the mill they are militia hams.

 

Im just posting ideas for new groups that don't have a degree from MIT. Most of the ppl you meet on here are not going to go through all that stuff they just want something easy and quick to be able to train s but with coms.

many have a hard time getting ppl to show up much less do all that complicated crap. 

Its not gonna happen.

[MBR 224]

40 minutes ago, Cb85 said:

Nope your missing the whole point. 

Antifa isn't jamming stuff some one more intelligent gave them the gear to do that most likely.

 

and I'm talking about intro level stuff for small groups who have no coms right now. 

 

And the hams I'm talking bout in my original post are not run of the mill they are militia hams.

 

Im just posting ideas for new groups that don't have a degree from MIT. Most of the ppl you meet on here are not going to go through all that stuff they just want something easy and quick to be able to train s but with coms.

many have a hard time getting ppl to show up much less do all that complicated crap. 

Its not gonna happen.

You are seriously underestimating the intelligence of people on this side of the fence. 

 

Besides there is nothing complicated about communications, the Militia appoints a person to handle it and they make it work. 

 

Do you seriously think every LEO out there understands the system that makes his handheld work when he calls for a backup, no he doesn't, nor does he need to, his job is law enforcement, my job is to make that communications system he needs work.

 

I'm not the kind of a person who would join a militia to train for any type of combat, I would join so I could bring my communications skills to solve their communications needs. 

 

We don't all need to warriors, their a ton of tasks needed to be done behind the scenes.

 

Do you have any idea of the value of someone who can cook is to a Militia, think about that? 

 

There is room for everyone of all walks of life to help out, each of us has a slot that we can fit into.  

 

And being negative and stating it's is too complicated, is BS, so either fall in place do your part or go away.  

Edited July 21 by MBR

[Cb85 136]

5 minutes ago, MBR said:

You are seriously underestimating the intelligence of people on this side of the fence. 

 

Besides there is nothing complicated about communications, the Militia appoints a person to handle it and they make it work. 

 

Do you seriously think every LEO out there understands the system that makes his handheld work when he calls for a backup, no he doesn't, nor does he need to, his job if law enforcement, my job is to make that communications system work.

 

I'm not the kind of a person who would join a militia to train for any type of combat, I would join so I could bring my communications skills to solve their communications needs. 

 

We don't all need to warriors, their a ton of tasks needed to be done behind the scenes.

 

Do you have any idea of the value of someone who can cook is to a Militia, think about that? 

 

There is room for everyone of all walks of life to help out, each of us has a slot that we can fit into.  

 

And being negative and stating it's is too complicated, is BS, so either fall in place do your part or go away.  

Do you think every small group had the resources to have a supper complex coms plan??

if you do then your living in candy land. 

 

There surely is room for everyone but not every militia has every kind of person jez pull your head out of you a**.

Edited July 21 by Cb85

[EricB1956 50]

42 minutes ago, MBR said:

You are seriously underestimating the intelligence of people on this side of the fence. 

 

Besides there is nothing complicated about communications, the Militia appoints a person to handle it and they make it work. 

 

Do you seriously think every LEO out there understands the system that makes his handheld work when he calls for a backup, no he doesn't, nor does he need to, his job is law enforcement, my job is to make that communications system he needs work.

 

I'm not the kind of a person who would join a militia to train for any type of combat, I would join so I could bring my communications skills to solve their communications needs. 

 

We don't all need to warriors, their a ton of tasks needed to be done behind the scenes.

 

Do you have any idea of the value of someone who can cook is to a Militia, think about that? 

 

There is room for everyone of all walks of life to help out, each of us has a slot that we can fit into.  

 

And being negative and stating it's is too complicated, is BS, so either fall in place do your part or go away.  

 

 

That's kinda like me, I'll bring the comms and the fixit ability, I'm getting too old to slug a rifle around all day long.

 

But I'd be damn happy to fix it for ya!

 

As for sending messages with encryption over ham bands, well, that isn’t hard at all. Yeah, using secret codes is forbidden on the ham bands, but if I tell you that “there’s geese down at the pond”, that’s all anyone knows and it sounds normal. But to you and I, it means that the guy’s are saddled up and ready to go. 

Like antifa or even the NSA is gonna figure that shit out.

It doesn’t matter who’s listening if you’re smart about it. 

[Recon Prepper 39]

Keep in mind using Amateur Radio to coordinate Militia activities is considered commercial use and a violation of FCC rules which could result in your license getting revoked and a fine issued.  And if everyone in the Militia is not licensed it for all intents and purposes precludes the use of handhelds for man to man communications.

 

 

Are you sure? im asking because I dont see it as such. The militia is not a business. Its a group of people working together like a club or organization. Unless they have a business license or llc or 501c3 how is it commercial?

If husband and wife are both licensed hams and the wife tells the husband to pick up something at the market is that commercial? what about asking for directions to a location? asking where are you in a crowded location so each other could find each other? telling one another to stay away from an area because its dangerous or land closures etc/......

If its ok for a husband and wife to do those things why is it illegal for a militia to do those things?  What makes it commercial?

Trying to understand the difference.

[MBR 224]

4 minutes ago, Recon Prepper said:

Keep in mind using Amateur Radio to coordinate Militia activities is considered commercial use and a violation of FCC rules which could result in your license getting revoked and a fine issued.  And if everyone in the Militia is not licensed it for all intents and purposes precludes the use of handhelds for man to man communications.

 

 

Are you sure? im asking because I dont see it as such. The militia is not a business. Its a group of people working together like a club or organization. Unless they have a business license or llc or 501c3 how is it commercial?

If husband and wife are both licensed hams and the wife tells the husband to pick up something at the market is that commercial? what about asking for directions to a location? asking where are you in a crowded location so each other could find each other? telling one another to stay away from an area because its dangerous or land closures etc/......

If its ok for a husband and wife to do those things why is it illegal for a militia to do those things?  What makes it commercial?

Trying to understand the difference.

For the most part everything you described is personal communications and fully in the open.

 

A militia is operational and should as much as possible avoid open communications resorting to codes and chypers, is that commercial maybe, do you want to find out from the FCC, probably not.

 

The other problem is licensing, in order to use Ham comms, all members must have a license and when active in an event are required to state their call signs over the air at least every 30 minutes, that means anyone and everyone monitoring the comms has everyone's personal information at their fingertips via., GenMen.

 

https://fjallfoss.fcc.gov/General_Menu_Reports/ 

 

Personally I don't think a lot of members are going to be too much in favor of doing that.

 

Conversely, if the organization has a Part 90 station license, everyone operates under that station license, they need not repeat it each time they key up (base can do a legal ID once per half hour)  and if that license is run through GenMen, it will come back to the corp or LLC of the organization, which could use say a UPS store address, dead ending someone trying to get to the core leadership of the Militia. 

 

And the legal authorized contact for the license can legally be the registered agent for the corp or LLC.

 

And under Part 90, codes, chypers and encryption are legal, all that must be in the clear is the legal ID, which can be hammered out by an CW auto ID connected to the base or control station. 

 

 

[Recon Prepper 39]

Do you think every small group had the resources to have a supper complex coms plan??

if you do then your living in candy land. 

 

 

 

who said it had to be super complex???? MBR surely didnt. He knows that like the cops they dont need to know how it works just that when they push the button on channel 12 he reaches his dispatcher. Militia would be the same way. We (meaning comms guys) need to make it idiot proof so the lowest common denominator can use the radio easily in an emergency.

[Recon Prepper 39]

gotcha mbr yeah I agree dont want to use my name on an open channel for antifa to find out where I live. And yeah I knew ciphers or encryption or anything that hides the meaning of a conversation was a no go for hams and ham frequencies.

I guess I was thinking of a business as commercial traffic and thinking militias aren't a business per say.

 

[Dugindog 6]

I hate to be this person, and I am not advocating for anything illegal, but let's be honest, if SHTF, do you really see the FCC trying to trace who is not using iden?  Besides when in times of emergency all rules are out the door....   

[Dugindog 6]

Section 97.403

Section 97.405

 

And I would have to say if it's at the point of militia activation, it is an emergency.

 

 

 

[EricB1956 50]

31 minutes ago, Recon Prepper said:

gotcha mbr yeah I agree dont want to use my name on an open channel for antifa to find out where I live. And yeah I knew ciphers or encryption or anything that hides the meaning of a conversation was a no go for hams and ham frequencies.

I guess I was thinking of a business as commercial traffic and thinking militias aren't a business per say.

 

That..... depends.

 

If, for example, you and I were talking about the weather, but actually giving enemy troop numbers and locations, who's gonna know the difference?

 

Learn from the Windtalkers, tortoise means tank, windy means troop movement, etc.

 

There's more than one way to skin a cat, even in peacetime.

[MBR 224]

33 minutes ago, Dugindog said:

I hate to be this person, and I am not advocating for anything illegal, but let's be honest, if SHTF, do you really see the FCC trying to trace who is not using iden?  Besides when in times of emergency all rules are out the door....   

And prior to that how do you train?

[Dugindog 6]

Just now, MBR said:

And prior to that how do you train?

Prior to that, use murs/frs/private hello channels

[EricB1956 50]

7 minutes ago, MBR said:

And prior to that how do you train?

See my post above...

[MBR 224]

8 minutes ago, Dugindog said:

Prior to that, use murs/frs/private hello channels

They why bother to use Ham channels?

[Dugindog 6]

Without any repercussions, Zello can be used, and can be a functional option until either cellular or Zello goes down.

[MBR 224]

37 minutes ago, Dugindog said:

Section 97.403

Section 97.405

 

And I would have to say if it's at the point of militia activation, it is an emergency.

 

 

 

Not really, unless the militia is officially sanctioned by the US government.

[MBR 224]

1 minute ago, Dugindog said:

Without any repercussions, Zello can be used, and can be a functional option until either cellular or Zello goes down.

And what does that have to do with anything?

 

EPTT is already out there and is an accepted standard unlike Zello.

[Dugindog 6]

1 minute ago, MBR said:

They why bother to use Ham channels?

Ham is essential, in long run as an option should cellular network go down or in areas where cellular is not functional.  But ham is needed to be by design built into a plan.  

 

Plan for multiple methods of comm.  Ham in various freq spectrums (hvhf, uhf, hf) cellular/data based, landline, hell even smoke signals.   Various methods for varied situations and circumstances.

 

Plan for all, use what works.