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GLCsector3295

Crime(s) committed in the military.

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https://www.yahoo.com/gma/unidentified-remains-found-search-missing-soldier-vanessa-guillen-235400601--abc-news-topstories.html

 

A very sad story, one that has a shit ton of caution for women in particular joining the military,  An I do not know yet if there is word of the crime being by another service member or what. But still... shouldn't of happened.  It will be even worse if this turns out to be a crime committed by another service member on base.... Crimes committed against military members barely gain national attention, i think it is fair to say this one did because this was a very attractive female, who could have had a better life outside the military; though interestingly enough 

 

https://news.yahoo.com/army-first-female-green-beret-205805874.html

 

Now for this other woman mentioned, we don't have the rank for the presumptive new female Green beret, interestingly enough the article for the Green Beret mentions that nothing is official until after the graduating ceremony and the article went out the way to mention that other infractions can prevent her from graduating ( an i assume they meant it goes for the men as well ), But it would be interesting if she did receive some kind of infraction on any level an got tossed. Or if her superiors give her the red carpet treatment all the way through.

 

So while there are plenty of good apples in the bunch that do deserve praise,  to me, the military has a very equal amount in bad apples.  Also I would of liked to of known if the standards to pass the training the Green Beret go through, were they adjusted for her in any way, I know at least when I was in, back in 97, female recruits just for basic training alone, were given a lesser requirement to pass the physical fitness testing and running.

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Rant Time <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

WHICH brings me to a gripe I do have with the bullshit physical fitness overboardness of the military,  It should either suck nuts for everyone in all branches, or be easy for everyone all the way through, when i was 18 I barely had any upper body strength and almost washed out because of push ups. My arms would literally lock up or be too fatigued after so many. So if the military realizes that women can not physically do the same amount as men for physical fitness, exactly what is the mindset that all men can do the exact same amount required physically. An more over, who the fuck is doing push ups and sit ups during a conflict ? Ya know what soldiers are doing a war conflict, shooting, and running.  IF it was my world and I could re write things at least in this small aspect, it would be to physically train with in reason, if a recruit cant do 50 push ups in 2 minutes, then how about 25 in 1 as a another route, and if not that, then a last ditch of 25 push ups in 25 seconds.  The over board with lifting weights and running and blowing your brains out 24/7 is total bullshit, because when one gets to advanced training, that same intensity is now diminished and gets even less once at ones duty station ( at least for me it was ) so much so that you see people putting on weight, and then being required to do PT after work .

 

An it is PT every damn day,  EVERY DAY !  how about this, alternate the mornings, PT three times a week, the other days one can focus on other necessary bullshit that there isn't enough time in the day for, or NCOs and officers can have some kind of open door policy for 30 minutes in that morning time frame to at the very least, pander and listen  to those who need to address issues they are having; or how about we think about what is really needed during a conflict, probably a lil more than someone who can run a 12 minute mile, how about shooting. I think I might have had time on the range maybe at least once a year.    focus on night time shooting, shooting with gear on, gear off, laser sights no sights,  etc.  An the reason why it isn't is it costs more money to produce the ammo, than it is to force every jackass up every damn morning to do PT. Or alternate days to focus on hand to hand combat and PT. I mean literally anything but the same fucking thing every mother fucking morning.

 

That and everyone gets their weapon as soon as they are on base, loaded as well. especially in todays world, you wana carry it off base, you would need to be in uniform and probably have permission.  Also the gun is the equalizer , easy to treat people like shit when you have a rank to protect you, it becomes a bit harder to be a complete worthless piece of shit non stop and hope the ones you are dumping on do not decide they have had enough an have some target practice on said p.o.s .   More over, women who serve, now have something to protect themselves when leadership decides to ignore a problem.   An look if you hate all of my ideas fine, please feel free to change it any which way you want, just please make it different and original.

 

An another reason why America should be a totally legally open carry nation, people want to cry about police brutality ,  people lose their nuts mighty fast when it is an equal playing field.  All laws and rules would still apply, criminals are not out legally registering and buying guns so we know laws do not apply to them. But at least the playing field would be even for handling rotten cops.

 

 

Also, is the Army still using all Berets instead of the normal hat ? Who was the fucking genius that changed that . If it isn't broke, Don't fix it. More over, unit patches on the dress uniforms are now i think " badges ". again pointless changes that serve no one but the person making said changes so they can add one more pointless feather to their hat.

 

 

Edited by GLCsector3295

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I hated the fucking berets!  Let's make everyone feel like they are all special forces just a different color beret is all.  Because, feelings.......  


"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.” ― Mark Twain

 

"I prefer dangerous FREEDOM over peaceful SLAVERY" -Thomas Jefferson

 

"Si vis pacem para bellum" - Every wise warrior there ever was.

 

lfr.jpg.91d35fb0dbad2fa6e5cc5b2544ce55d5.jpg

 

lfr.jpg

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26 minutes ago, LetFreedomRing said:

I hated the fucking berets!  Let's make everyone feel like they are all special forces just a different color beret is all.  Because, feelings.......  

I was told some gen. desk jockey saw the iraqi soldiers wearing them and  made the decision to make the us army change to them. I hated them to. Leave it to desk jockeys to fuck it all up. And yes it was about morale also. Make everyone feel special.

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5 hours ago, Skillet said:

Berets nowadays are pretty much only worn during ceremonies and with the dress uniform, SMA Daley brought the PC Cap back for normal daily wear when he was around.      

 

 

Good to know!  Some progress at least.


"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.” ― Mark Twain

 

"I prefer dangerous FREEDOM over peaceful SLAVERY" -Thomas Jefferson

 

"Si vis pacem para bellum" - Every wise warrior there ever was.

 

lfr.jpg.91d35fb0dbad2fa6e5cc5b2544ce55d5.jpg

 

lfr.jpg

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9 hours ago, Nail Driver said:

I was told some gen. desk jockey saw the iraqi soldiers wearing them and  made the decision to make the us army change to them. I hated them to. Leave it to desk jockeys to fuck it all up. And yes it was about morale also. Make everyone feel special.

 

Naw, the Berets were pre- Iraq. It was that great braintrust Shinsecki that came up with it. I hope you picked up the sarcasm in that sentence.  

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10 minutes ago, Skillet said:

 

Naw, the Berets were pre- Iraq. It was that great braintrust Shinsecki that came up with it. I hope you picked up the sarcasm in that sentence.  

I laughed at the way some soldiers looked , Just reminded me of those french artist fellas.

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Author of the topic Posted

https://www.yahoo.com/news/guillen-family-attorney-says-believe-160400247.html

 

Just an update in case anyone was following this .

 

I guess on one hand it is probably a relief a crime was not committed, but then one has to ask why does a seemingly normal person with a bright future go down that road. Speculations galore if one wanted to, but the emphasis again is how the military can do a lot better, to offer active duty soldiers  a " safe place "  { vomits at having to say that }   but some place on base that they go to, either outsourced to a civilian section, or anonymously run by military doctors, that are not addressed by rank, but job title.  Normally a chaplain is a good place to start, but even they wear a faux rank and that faux rank can be perceived in a negative manner for someone with mental issues that needs immediate help.

 

I think it is fairly well known that speaking openly in the military about having thoughts of suicide or emotional problems of any nature is a too bad fucking problem for the one who has it, and trying to bring it up the chain of command ,to go hey, i have a problem where do i go to for help, can lead to belittling and forms of harassment one is not ready for.

 

Having some place on a military base, where one can walk in,  in civilian clothing and scan their ID at a check in station ,  an just get information or help with out harassment would make life easier for those who need help. An making some kind of change in this regard, should not have to take a tribunal to ponder , debate and vote on.   

 

Even if ones  1st Sgt, Lt, an Captain, had a fucking sign posted some where that read, if you need personal help for any reason do not hesitate to ask me... That much right there would of changed my time in the military .  Just something that shows some common human decency , no need to be a parent, and kiss boo boos, but to not inform people of resources available and not even considering to make them available just makes things worse for single soldiers with what appears to be no options left but to figure things out on their own the best they can, and that is what leads to but not the soul cause of, why those serving can end up going AWOL, and so on.

 

Showing some common sense and human decency doesn't have to equal to making everyone feel special by wearing a fucking Beret or a " badge ".

 

K thanks for letting me rant. 

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35 minutes ago, GLCsector3295 said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/guillen-family-attorney-says-believe-160400247.html

 

Just an update in case anyone was following this .

 

I guess on one hand it is probably a relief a crime was not committed, but then one has to ask why does a seemingly normal person with a bright future go down that road. Speculations galore if one wanted to, but the emphasis again is how the military can do a lot better, to offer active duty soldiers  a " safe place "  { vomits at having to say that }   but some place on base that they go to, either outsourced to a civilian section, or anonymously run by military doctors, that are not addressed by rank, but job title.  Normally a chaplain is a good place to start, but even they wear a faux rank and that faux rank can be perceived in a negative manner for someone with mental issues that needs immediate help.

 

I think it is fairly well known that speaking openly in the military about having thoughts of suicide or emotional problems of any nature is a too bad fucking problem for the one who has it, and trying to bring it up the chain of command ,to go hey, i have a problem where do i go to for help, can lead to belittling and forms of harassment one is not ready for.

 

Having some place on a military base, where one can walk in,  in civilian clothing and scan their ID at a check in station ,  an just get information or help with out harassment would make life easier for those who need help. An making some kind of change in this regard, should not have to take a tribunal to ponder , debate and vote on.   

 

Even if ones  1st Sgt, Lt, an Captain, had a fucking sign posted some where that read, if you need personal help for any reason do not hesitate to ask me... That much right there would of changed my time in the military .  Just something that shows some common human decency , no need to be a parent, and kiss boo boos, but to not inform people of resources available and not even considering to make them available just makes things worse for single soldiers with what appears to be no options left but to figure things out on their own the best they can, and that is what leads to but not the soul cause of, why those serving can end up going AWOL, and so on.

 

Showing some common sense and human decency doesn't have to equal to making everyone feel special by wearing a fucking Beret or a " badge ".

 

K thanks for letting me rant. 

 

Installation EO is exactly that place. Likewise even Battalion/Squadron, Brigade, and Division EOs are go to folks for things like this.  Likewise the SHARP system works pretty darn well too. All troops are briefed on these during Basic and again before graduating AIT, and most installations cover them during in-processing briefings. And if you look at the Company/Troop/Battery and higher Command policy letters army wide EVERY command has an open door policy. It's mandated, and reading those letters is supposed to be a part of in-processing.

 

You got stuck in a shit unit with shit leadership. Don't let it cloud your view of the entire military.  You know how many chapters I had to deal with during my couple of decades wearing stripes? Zero. And as a TL, SL, PSG, and 1SG we gave out exactly ONE Article 15 to one of my troops, that's a period of over 2 decades.  Did we have issues with people? Yeah, but nothing a 4473 and some creative corrective training couldn't handle. Of course I was a different animal, raised by the Vietnam vets when the Army was huge and I possessed absolutely zero political correctness. But there are good units with damn good people and leaders in them, always has been, always will be. I always told the CSMs and other 1SGs I wanted the soldiers they considered problem children. Because I found out a few things as a young troop. You make sure a married guys family is taken care of and they'll bust their asses for ya. You make sure single guys are getting paid and getting time off and they'll be loyal as hell to you. I never did anything individually great, my soldiers were always my credentials. And having been a young hellraising private (I literally beat the shit out of a CQ one night drunk as hell) I learned that 'bad soldiers' were rare, most problem troops were just being poorly led.

I had a pretty good incentive program for PT, but we always did PT 5 days a week. Anyone that max'ed their score got out of PT Monday through Thursday. Fridays or the last workday of the week we always did a unit esprit de Corps run s we could run through other units talking shit.  That incentive program paid off huge during deployment,, because guys were hitting the gym after work and their endurance was pretty significant. When it came to having to hump in body armor and swampass heat they were ready.

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11 minutes ago, Skillet said:

 

Installation EO is exactly that place. Likewise even Battalion/Squadron, Brigade, and Division EOs are go to folks for things like this.  Likewise the SHARP system works pretty darn well too. All troops are briefed on these during Basic and again before graduating AIT, and most installations cover them during in-processing briefings. And if you look at the Company/Troop/Battery and higher Command policy letters army wide EVERY command has an open door policy. It's mandated, and reading those letters is supposed to be a part of in-processing.

 

You got stuck in a shit unit with shit leadership. Don't let it cloud your view of the entire military.  You know how many chapters I had to deal with during my couple of decades wearing stripes? Zero. And as a TL, SL, PSG, and 1SG we gave out exactly ONE Article 15 to one of my troops, that's a period of over 2 decades.  Did we have issues with people? Yeah, but nothing a 4473 and some creative corrective training couldn't handle. Of course I was a different animal, raised by the Vietnam vets when the Army was huge and I possessed absolutely zero political correctness. But there are good units with damn good people and leaders in them, always has been, always will be. I always told the CSMs and other 1SGs I wanted the soldiers they considered problem children. Because I found out a few things as a young troop. You make sure a married guys family is taken care of and they'll bust their asses for ya. You make sure single guys are getting paid and getting time off and they'll be loyal as hell to you. I never did anything individually great, my soldiers were always my credentials. And having been a young hellraising private (I literally beat the shit out of a CQ one night drunk as hell) I learned that 'bad soldiers' were rare, most problem troops were just being poorly led.

I had a pretty good incentive program for PT, but we always did PT 5 days a week. Anyone that max'ed their score got out of PT Monday through Thursday. Fridays or the last workday of the week we always did a unit esprit de Corps run s we could run through other units talking shit.  That incentive program paid off huge during deployment,, because guys were hitting the gym after work and their endurance was pretty significant. When it came to having to hump in body armor and swampass heat they were ready.

Hell of a good read Top. I served under ex Vietnam grunts, some had switched over from Marine Corp. Had a SSgt SL we would have followed to the gates of hell. When we went to the field it was us 3rd platoon C co. 4/8th INF that spear headed every training mission. Every now and then there would be a problem with a soldier, but it was always handled at PLT. level. Would love to have those guys now for what might be coming.

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51 minutes ago, Nail Driver said:

Hell of a good read Top. I served under ex Vietnam grunts, some had switched over from Marine Corp. Had a SSgt SL we would have followed to the gates of hell. When we went to the field it was us 3rd platoon C co. 4/8th INF that spear headed every training mission. Every now and then there would be a problem with a soldier, but it was always handled at PLT. level. Would love to have those guys now for what might be coming.

 

I guess that would have been the Crazy Eight era when they were at Coleman?  Yeah, a lot of the guys from that era were great, my first squad leader actually did a tour in Nam with my oldest brother, and a quick connex counseling session saved us a lot of paperwork, LOL. I was always a big fan of handling things at the lowest level. I used to tell young Corporals and Bucks when they put their stripes on I would underwrite an honest mistake as long as they used their best judgement, and if they had a problem figuring it out they better damn well ask. Ignorance isn't a sin, but knowing you're ignorant and staying that way is.

 

Leading isn't that hard. Don't be an asshole until you have to be one, listen to your guys and involve them in decision making because they may have a smarter way or different perspective to get things done, but be decisive, because nobody respects someone that is indecisive, don't be afraid to raise your hand and tell God and the whole world you screwed up, and use the word "we" when describing successes and 'I" when describing failures, chew ass in private and praise in public.  The most important thing a leader does is build new leaders, because one day one of those guys is gong to replace you and that is your legacy.

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2 hours ago, Skillet said:

 

I guess that would have been the Crazy Eight era when they were at Coleman?  Yeah, a lot of the guys from that era were great, my first squad leader actually did a tour in Nam with my oldest brother, and a quick connex counseling session saved us a lot of paperwork, LOL. I was always a big fan of handling things at the lowest level. I used to tell young Corporals and Bucks when they put their stripes on I would underwrite an honest mistake as long as they used their best judgement, and if they had a problem figuring it out they better damn well ask. Ignorance isn't a sin, but knowing you're ignorant and staying that way is.

 

Leading isn't that hard. Don't be an asshole until you have to be one, listen to your guys and involve them in decision making because they may have a smarter way or different perspective to get things done, but be decisive, because nobody respects someone that is indecisive, don't be afraid to raise your hand and tell God and the whole world you screwed up, and use the word "we" when describing successes and 'I" when describing failures, chew ass in private and praise in public.  The most important thing a leader does is build new leaders, because one day one of those guys is gong to replace you and that is your legacy.

Coleman it was. We used the back of the motor pool for that counseling. When we went to the field for an ARTEP my squad leader and I would go on search and destroy missions. I would leave my pig with a squad member and take his M16. Squad leader would bring arty sim. We would sneak around opfors flank and find 3/8 Cav m60. I would dump 30 rounds of blanks while SL tossed sim onto tank. Then run like hell. TC on tank dropped inside yelling SHIT. Sounds funny, but we were training. We knew if balloon went up we would need those skills. Everything you said in the above post rings true with leadership skills. I didn't encounter much of that when I got to Kelly Hill in 1/58th 197th. That's a story for another day.   

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7 hours ago, Skillet said:

Installation EO is exactly that place. Likewise even Battalion/Squadron, Brigade, and Division EOs are go to folks for things like this.  Likewise the SHARP system works pretty darn well too. All troops are briefed on these during Basic and again before graduating AIT, and most installations cover them during in-processing briefings. And if you look at the Company/Troop/Battery and higher Command policy letters army wide EVERY command has an open door policy. It's mandated, and reading those letters is supposed to be a part of in-processing.

 

 

Well being my time in was now over 10 years ago, maybe this is what they are doing now in the Army, I have no clue and it would take an active duty person who just got out of basic and just got to a permanent duty station to really compare that .

 

 I like that last part though, " Supposed to be a part of in-processing".   I had none of this information in basic training back in 97 @ Ft. Jackson South Carolina, it was shut up get off the bus, go over here , an  I have no clue what an installation EO is, or anything else that you mentioned, doesn't mean it doesnt or didnt exist when I was in, BUT i think it shows that the path i was on, no where did anyone mention any of that at any point in time.

 

My entire time for not knowing, was, well you were SUPPOSED to do this or you were SUPPOSED to go here or there, to which  i wanted to reply, well wtf don't you think if someone told me before hand or had I known before hand I would have.

 

An to hear peoples absolute opposite experience to what I had, i really find mind boggling , PT 3 times a week, an etc, or having access to all this information,  that I never did.  I would still re work things and stream line it, you know what people get when they first go to prison, pretty much a how to book. What the prison expects, and so on, at least some do, dunno if all do , but i know from seeing programs that at least some do.   That same concept can be done in the military, You sign up with a recruiter , and before you even set foot on a military installation, boom hand book, with a shit ton of information, or at the very least internet links to guide one where they need to go. an on the way out, the same thing, or at least a pamphlet of information.

 

When big organizations run on, it is supposed to be done this way, and no one is checking to see it is being done that way. Then it becomes very easy to just ignore how things are Supposed to be done.

 

If I had a magic device, i would go meet that family of that female, and ask them if they or she knew of the help that is Supposed to be available. An if no one knew then why.

 

My view of the military is very skewed , but I try to remind myself it isn't  like that for everyone but it still baffles me that I haven't bumped into more mentally scarred veterans like myself.

 

 I mean everyone here sounds like they served in the military of WWI and WWII and had those experiences as portrayed in John Wayne or Clint Eastwood / WWII movies.

 

My experience was having my ass set on fire, getting covered in wasps and hit with a fucking brick day in an out for 2 years straight wondering which way was up. I should of gotten a fucking medal just for not going AWOL. Which mind you was one of the funny fucking things during a morning roll call, to have a  1sgt barking for attendance per platoon in front of everyone, lmfao to have the platoon leader have a quiver in his voice and say out loud, one awol.   an to then watch the 1sgt just lose his shit, as if in his head is rattling around WTF DIDNT YOU TELL ME THIS BEFORE  WE ALL GOT OUT HERE.  

 

It was at least 3-4 times in a year someone on Kelly Hill in my unit,was either AWOL and left for good, or late because they were drunk, or passing out in formation because they were drunk. One NCO even had his wife call in sick for him, which was also fucking hilarious to listen that tirade.

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Author of the topic Posted

https://www.yahoo.com/news/dead-suspect-disappearance-fort-hood-203954031.html

 

 

 well, another update to this... I miss read the previous  article  an thought they meant the woman had committed suicide , it was referencing a person of interest in the case was an active duty member who committed suicide ,

 

Turns out,  the person was in some form or another one of her commanding officers . An he took the cowards way out.

 

I can almost promise , that the victim had no clue about who to turn to for help.  

 

Because think about this, lets say a victim female, or male ( since now we have homosexuals in the military and transgenders ) are harassed in any manner, by a superior, an at the very least they work enough courage up to go to the MP station and file a complaint. or maybe they have a commanding officer who is a good person,  the report is made and said investigation begins.

 

Now what happens to the victim and the person under investigation , the answer is, well nothing, they both go about their normal routines.   An now let's hear what is " supposed to happen " .

 

The victims sister made a comment about

 

Now her family is demanding a congressional investigation into the military’s handling of Guillen’s case, alleging the probe has been riddled with “lies.” 

“They lied to our faces every single day that passed for more than two months. My sister was sexually harassed and no one cared,” Lupe Guillen, the soldier’s younger sister, said at a Wednesday press conference. “My sister is a human too. If this can happen to my sister it can happen to anyone else. She deserves justice!”

“I want Fort Hood Army base to shut down... They’re protecting one another,” she added. 

 

An I can agree, it was one reason why I never reported my NCO for a lot of stuff he got away with, because he made sure he was at least friendly or on good terms with the 1sgt an so on.   Point is, rank becomes a big problem when crimes and needing to report service members for anything.  Now I do believe that the MP/CID with in the military probably do take their jobs seriously and professionally, I can only imagine what a nightmare it would have to be to be an MP and go through being a victim of something and then hoping your fellow law enforcement are on your side.

 

If you are on the low totem pole in rank, your word / testimony means jack shit.   Can you imagine if military NCOS and officers had random  reports done on them, by an anonymous survey from those who serve under them, granted they can lie, an put a ton of negative shit down,  but there are ways to sniff out the bullshit in such surveys...  any kind of common sense approach to ensuring people have the right information in their hands before getting into a very bad situation with those who out rank them, go by the way side and fall into the , you were supposed to know category or the, it was supposed to be done before hand category . Mean while, the jackoffs that be, are hard at work changing the US Army uniform around to be more modern and pussified.     If the military had an equivalent and dedicated HR section, it would be slammed with complaints faster than you could blink, and the calls for this military base to be shut down, would be no different than a civilian company, with its executives coming under fire, heads on a chopping block, and all of them in court, being sued by said family. ( granted it is not going to be, and would not be practical to be shut down )  Hopefully this family finds a very good lawyer suited to engage with bringing this victims chain of command to a military court at the very least to be questioned under oath, so they can sweat and have some fire under their ass even if briefly.

 

I suspect this will be the last article we hear on the subject.

 

But for every article we do hear, there are plenty of service members who are being mistreated and abused  because some worthless piece of shit, managed to get just enough rank.  An isn't held accountable .

 

Which is why my stomach turns when Sean Hannity gets on the air and just starts licking the militarys' collective butthole as this noble, honest, hard working , people you can trust that are portrayed in every military movie.

I think the closest example of a movie about the worst the military has to offer is that movie The Dirty Dozen, ( a pre amble if you will to the comic book version of DC Comics Suicide Squad )  The men in the movie were the worst possible, in the end they gave it to the Nazis , which really one can debate as to that being  any kind of earned redemption to the crimes they committed ? I think one character in the movie was a flat out rapist but not certain.   Don't get me wrong, it is a great movie and pretty funny in parts and at times gets close to being accurate. 

 

 

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If the military had an equivalent and dedicated HR section," Did you never hear of the IG?  Even the greenest private knows what the IG is.

 

"Can you imagine if military NCOS and officers had random  reports done on them, by an anonymous survey from those who serve under them" They do, it's called a Command Climate Survey and it's completely anonymous and executed by an agency outside of the command with the results going all the way up the chain to at least 2 stars, and in some cases the Installation or Corps Commander. That survey has fairly specific questions on it which can result in a unit being investigated and people getting relieved or punished. I watched one of my counterparts lose his diamond and his Captain get relieved after his unit did one.

 

"If you are on the low totem pole in rank, your word / testimony means jack shit. " I beg to differ. I know a former CSM serving a stint in Leavenworth right now based on the testimony of a PFC.  Once CID gets a case a Privates statement carries as much weight as a Generals when it comes to what they saw and knew.

 

"chain of command to a military court at the very least to be questioned under oath" I'll guarantee that the entire chain of command from her first line supervisor to her Company Commander has already had to make sworn statements to CID concerning this situation. Those are done under oath.  You lie on those and it's a federal offense.

 

If you didn't report illegal, unethical, or immoral actions punishable under the UCMJ  then you were a part of the problem and not part of the solution. And you could very well have been in violation of the UCMJ by not reporting it. 

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Author of the topic Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Skillet said:

Did you never hear of the IG?  Even the greenest private knows what the IG is

 Kind of blows that idea out of the water, the even the greenest private knows, if I say I haven't heard of it.   an falls back into that, well you were supposed to know category or, someone was supposed to tell you before you got in on what to do.

 

there really needs to be a Supposed to section in the military, where anyone can go, to hear someone tell them, you were supposed to ( fill in the blank )

1 hour ago, Skillet said:

If you didn't report illegal, unethical, or immoral actions punishable under the UCMJ  then you were a part of the problem and not part of the solution. And you could very well have been in violation of the UCMJ by not reporting it. 

 

Sounds good in theory, but when you have a buddy system in a chain of command where they look out for each other, and lower ranking individuals who are not informed and are only told, well you are supposed to ,,,,  then what.  When just for a hypothetical, you know your NCO is stealing anything,  so you go okay, well holy fucking shit, i dont want to fall into the being part of the problem not the solution scenario , you go and bring your happy ass to a  1sgt. lt, or capt,   well hurray for doing the right thing, EXCEPT , now, guess what, you still have to show up for duty the next day, and by that time, that same NCO now knows you were the one who went and filed a formal complaint. So guess what, now you have brought an entirely brand new world of hurt upon yourself because you didn't want to be apart of the problem. Mean while your chain of command, did ask if there was any truth to what was being said, but they are just too fucking stupid to know how to look into the situation other than to go, hey, um, are you stealing because so an so says you are stealing ,  an make your answer quick because i have to fuck off for the rest of the day and piss around with worrying about my own ass and career. 

 

Or suppose you do know where to go, an you go to IG,, IG in turn goes to your unit commander, and now shit rolls down hill again. you are still stuck in your section, and having to deal with the consequences of doing the right thing.

 

versus the civilian world, where, if one faces job discrimination , harassment in other forums , whistle blowing or snitching * which is what it is really considered in the military , civilian world  * not doing the right thing, but being a snitch.    one hires a lawyer, and thusly is no longer employed at said company, versus  the military, there is no confidentiality .  There is no moving one person out of a possible harmful situation or having reported someone for doing something illegal or immoral, to a different unit, and there are reasons why, mainly it is because, where the fuck do you put the person who might be in danger or has filed a report .  I am sure there are answers when one wants to pull one out in a hurry, but for the female in question, one has to wonder ,if she should of been brow beaten for not knowing about IG and going straight to them . Maybe her story should just be chalked up to tough shit, she was too stupid .

1 hour ago, Skillet said:

They do, it's called a Command Climate Survey and it's completely anonymous and executed by an agency outside of the command with the results going all the way up the chain to at least 2 stars, and in some cases the Installation or Corps Commander. That survey has fairly specific questions on it which can result in a unit being investigated and people getting relieved or punished. I watched one of my counterparts lose his diamond and his Captain get relieved after his unit did one.

 This is excellent news that you specifically had this option available to you, because for me when i was serving at Ft. Benning , back around 2000 when I was at my permanent station, it wasn't heard of, at least not to anyone that I knew of from NCO and down. It sure as hell never was offered in any way shape or form to anyone under the rank of NCO when I was in.  I mean it makes sense for senior officers to have it pulled on them to their lower suboridnates but it really isn't practical at lower levels, because the military has a giant tough shit , suck it up, make what you can of it attitude.  

 

Again it falls into the supposed to know category ,   educating the ranks is not what the military does, it never has, now maybe those looking to put a feather in their career cap, maybe earn a bonus for signing someone up or having someone stay in, maybe those individuals take the time to groom and mold others , because  after all, in all parts of society we have our cliques. We have friends or people we take an interest in for what ever reason, and we either want to see them succeed and get up to a beneficial mutual level, or there is something to benefit from .

 

Or better yet, since I am hitting a cord,  and I find it intriguing, lets climb up the ladder, 

https://www.businessinsider.com/navy-seal-promoted-green-beret-death-logan-melgar-2020-1 ;   what I really find interesting is if this article is correct in any degree, the accused in question , was either in the process of being promoted or in line for a promotion, and instead of someone saying, woah, lets hit pause on this till it is over, it gets pushed through. Why ? the real answer is who the fuck knows, it is the military.

 

This link though, is what gets me though, when I am talking about Sean Hannity licking the collective butthole of the military, and how great it is from top to bottom. 

 

https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/seal-team-member-accept-plea-deal-green-berets/story?id=63063286

 

 

But here is the kicker to this story,

 

https://news.usni.org/2019/05/17/seal-sentenced-to-a-year-of-confinement-for-hazing-death-of-logan-melgar

 

One year of confinement, 

 

an all this p.o.s can say now that he has been caught with his pants down, is that he is truly sorry.  * golf claps *,,,  and granted his career is over, maybe he doesn't get benefits or what ever, but that is really peanuts because an innocent man/ solider is still dead, and for no good reason.  

 

This case is a very good indication of the kind of justice that the female victim from my original post, can expect. Because now, the only real suspect has committed suicide, and at this point, all those at FT Hood are really going to be interested in, is covering their own ass, and not do a full investigation into who knew what, and hold them accountable, but maybe do a soft ball interview, file this as done and move on.

 

or in case some here may think I am still blowing things way out.

 

we have this gem of a fuck up.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehime_Maru_and_USS_Greeneville_collision

 

 

 

Now, for this incident, really a crime, to not have taken place, all that had to happen, under the context of wanting to be apart of the solution not the problem and brought up on charges, is for the lowest members of that crew on the Greeneville, who had their hands on the buttons , controls what ever, to just have the nerve to say, Sir with all due respect, we have to follow protocol, regulations, what ever, I am going to have to say no. An more over sir, now i am going to have to report you, BUT WAIT ! holy fucking shit we are on a submarine,, holy fucking shit nuts batman, how the fuck do we do the right thing, not get my ass handed to me, and tell a superior officer to basically go fuck himself because he wants me to do the wrong thing, so he can impress a few people.

 

Now mind you, translate this over to the civilian world, a multiple death incident, from lets say, a joy ride, hypothetically , the person on the joy ride who didn't intend to murder anyone, is still going up on murder charges an may still face the death penalty.

 

Not so with the US Military,  they can be kicked out,  lose all their money, disgraced and etc, but do not bet any money that one is going to receive a just trial.

 

Because the out come was in the end this,,,

 

Quote

After Commander Waddle had faced the Naval Board of Inquiry, it was decided that a full court-martial would be unnecessary, and he was forced to retire and given an honorable discharge.

 

Did he show remorse and grief after the fact, yes, but big fucking deal.   More over, it would of been interesting to see a Naval Board of Inquiry explain to the lowest ranking members on that ship, as to exactly what they should of done in that scenario .  Because everyone knows damn good n well in the military, that your rank is your brain and identity,  you do not have the rank, you have nothing, your opinion means less than nothing and your well being barely means anything. An that is something that is not beaten into the brains of those even considering joining.

 

The military is full of double standards. An hypocrisy , which is why I do not join Sean Hannity and others who are nose deep in the ass kissing department of the US Military.

 

are there good people in the military , sure there are . but they are over shadowed and only come to light when they have reached war hero status.

 

An more over i still stand by giving out a medal for anyone who does their time and gets discharged with an Honorable Discharge,  despite being in conflict or not, if they are not an NCO, an they get that Honorable Discharge , they deserve recognition and an bonus on the way out. Everyone else who hits an NCO rank and above, gets a cigar, a bottle of booze, and a kick n the ass out the door.

 

 

Lastly, this isn't all aimed at skillet, or anyone here, it is just my worthless view point, and observations . I don't take anything said towards me personally, but as anyone can see, I do tend to fly off the rails at times.  I consider this one of these times.

 

Now do not get me wrong, I would of loved to have the John Wayne, Clint Eastwood movie experience that it appears most here have experienced, and I can admit I am jealous of those who have. But I have succumb to reality and more over I have come to agree with the mind set of the Late, Great, George Carlin.  An his take on the world.

 

 

I do support the military, just not at the level as others, or rather I distrust the military a little bit less than I distrust the government.  I want both to succeed but I am never going believe that either have my best interest at heart or really give two shits about me on any given day.

Edited by GLCsector3295

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Author of the topic Posted

Also to the honesty of the military,

 

crimes and cover ups...

 

lets not forget

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Tillman

 

An just look at how long it took for the Truth to come forward. An then ask, where the hell was IG and the Supposed to brigade.

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Call me an asshole, a cry baby, what ever you want, no skin off my back, one thing I do love and believe in, is the Truth, warts and all, if it is a fat , smelly, ugly fucking mess. That is exactly what I am going to call it. An that with in an of itself, does not automatically mean it is completely bad or worthless. Just means what ever it is, is one fat, smelly, ugly fucking mess.

Edited by GLCsector3295

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I find it crazy you were unaware of the IG option,  In case you didn't now the IG is one of the people that can make a 1SG and CSM's life hell, because the option to simply ignore it and make it go away isn't there. And if the chain of command is caught covering up or retaliating there is consequences, the UCMJ has specific articles for dealing with people that harass whistle blowers. Likewise a Congressional is one the tools that makes commanders at all levels hell because of the mandate to answer the issue in a timely manner.  

If you never took a command climate survey then someone royally screwed up big time. It's mandated by regulation within 30 days of a company commander assuming command, again at six months, and then once a year after that, and additionally its normally done right before a commander leaves command. The reason is it allows big army to ensure that nobody is off the rails and also serves as a tool for that commanders rater and senior rater to craft their evaluation. It is literally the soldier's direct input into their command evaluation.  Trust me, I've seen guys careers shut down over the result of a command climate survey.

 

Like I said before, it sounds like you got stuck in a shit unit with shit leadership. That's not the norm.

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it is really interesting that there are so many consequences  and articles to deal with these issues,   kind of like how the founding fathers wrote up rules and the like so that in the event a president or other member of government, can be removed from office,   so if we keep following the " it is supposed to happen like this " idea , by all accounts Clinton should of been convicted for lying to congress and removed from office.

 

But evidently the process of his trial , evidently didn't get the supposed to memo on convicting a president for lying under oath. It was Supposed to happen, there were blatant and obvious laws and articles already in place for anyone to know, and it is mind boggling how even the simplest of American Voters did not know what was supposed to happen.

 

an that then gets chalked up to the , whoopsie pile, of being stuck with shit leadership and not the norm.

 

Mine as well chalk Tillman and that other solider  an the Officers involved with the Greeneville  into the, not the norm category as well and an give more praise to a court system that protects those above a certain rank.

 

People forget that joining the military one signs over all their freedom and rights, there is no voting out or recalling bad NCOS / leadership, there is an entire system that is outside the rest of the world, with its' own set of written and unwritten rules, to which people should not be ignorant of and be prepared to find out that unwritten rules and cliques and ones career and image are protected way faster and more often than giving that same treatment to the very bottom rung.  The word ( NO ) and the Concept of having respect for each other, are reserved for those in the NCO - Officer ranks,  The military even makes it a point to break each group up, so that there is no fraternizing among the brackets. Which I have no problem with, it just goes to show that there are classes with in the military. NCOs an Officers may THINK they have everyones respect under them, but that is really just a sense of entitlement due to ones rank.

 

Though I guess I could say while what I am saying it is true but not the norm, it sure does start to look like a fairly normal reality once we start stacking up news articles of what is taking place in the military. Base commanders and the military never really get that worked up, until their faces are on public TV being asked to explain why a crime took place under their watch   on  a disgusting magnitude .

 

well before i split an give everyone else the last word

 

how about two more examples of ( Supposed to ) and Military Bullshit, with unwritten rules,  

 

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/military/navy-expected-relieve-captain-who-raised-alarm-about-covid-19-n1175351

 

Everyone is fairly familiar with this story,  If we give this captain the benefit of the doubt, of not being a little cry baby bitch, and a drama queen over the covid virus, an believe what he says, then we have to believe that he did in deed , follow protocol, and went up the chain of command addressing the issue, and waited for a very long time for a response, and either never got a response or got one he didn't like in regards to a very serious problem on the ship he was in command of, and he was worried about not only the safety of those on board but where ever his ship might end up docking at. 

 

In return he felt he had no other option but to alert the public, and for all his troubles, for doing everything in the supposed to fashion, he was ignored, and then politically and militarily executed.

 

I suppose we should chalk his experience to not the norm as well...

 

or we can talk about Chelsea Manning,

 

as messed up as that person is and even though he in the end did commit espionage , the personal story behind it all is what is ignored,

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chelsea_Manning

 

parts worth nothing are ,

 

Email to supervisor, recommended discharge  and Contact with gender counselor and Move to Fort Drum, deployment to Iraq

 

Those parts right there, show how a lot of supposed to, things, did not take place, a lot of warning signs were plainly evident and in the end, it was leadership that messed up, time after time after time.  Because of the unwritten rules on handling a situation with in the military .  Had Mannings superiors not had their heads up their asses, Manning might have at the very least had his security clearance revoked, or at best had been discharged on a mental instability status and thusly either way not have had the chance to leak said information. Point is, Mannings leadership is just as guilty as Manning, yet not one person in Mannings leadership got the scrutiny or legal attention that Manning did.  Very easy to chop the head off lower ranks and grunts, but climb higher and one is practically untouchable. 

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https://www.yahoo.com/gma/air-force-officer-under-fire-facebook-missing-fort-205500584--abc-news-topstories.html

 

should of read in title, former, bit misleading but still

 

the tune being played is still the same, this is not the norm, just an isolated incident nothing to see here, and the person gets caught and then deletes and says everything was taken out of context. well shit it wasn't a problem before you weren't caught saying it, so if it was taken out of context why delete it.

 

Also in the ( not supposed to happen, you were supposed to know category, or the  it is just an isolated incident rarely ever happens because of the utmost highest standards the military has - B.S )

 

An no need even for a link, but how about Guantanamo Bay, ole George Bush great as he was, messed up with this gem, and the US Gov/ Military collectively lost their minds and if it wasn't for whistle blowers, the truth may have never gotten out. One can try to rationalize  Guantanamo all they want about if higher ups knew what was going on, which they did, but it is easy for those at the top to play stupid when it suits them, anyhow point is,

 

Take any US Prison now, and have a report come out of the injustice being done on that same level, that prison would instantly be shut down with in a month flat, and the state of said prison would have a hefty pay out on their hands at the tax payers expense. 

 

I didn't support Obama closing Guantanamo , nor having terrorists tried in American courts,   Guantanamo is one of those un necessary  issues.  Being run primarily by the military, and the reports are still surfacing of on going issues. Some are usually religious rights bullshit, but others are very reasonable complaints. That America just doesn't care about anymore.

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https://www.yahoo.com/gma/timeline-know-missing-fort-hood-soldier-vanessa-guillen-001730238--abc-news-topstories.html

 

Just more information on the original posting I started,

 

An no surprise  " Nothing can be confirmed "

 

Though one has to then ask if they are really ready to discredit and or not believe the victims family who is now speaking on her behalf. By this point in time, I imagine the case has been officially closed , and the FT Hood Commander is doing the best he can to make sure the story dies fast,  and interestingly enough, while the  " you were supposed to know brigade "  is quick to point out what victims and others in piss poor worthless military units are " supposed to do ", the same is not mentioned for NCOs and Officers, I would gladly bet an arm and a leg, that there are more people in her unit, with rank, who heard something. An did nothing.  More over it says a lot towards the base commander of Ft Hood, for not making a public statement or at the least the Unit commander, which has a lot to do with covering ones own ass and playing the game of protect your rank on top of cover your own ass.

 

An this is just one small case in the big picture, plenty of gangs form with in the military, of many races, basically any crime you can think of, takes place just the same in the Military, but just on a quiet , very  quiet level.

 

Because admitting there are a shit ton of problems with in the military, doesn't play well to the narrative of being the best and most morally up right institution that America has to offer.  Minimizing the problems the Military has, doesn't help things either. An with the Military being a closed door society it makes it extremely hard if not impossible to fix. 

 

The best thing this family did for their daughter and sister, was to hire a private attorney and not rely on military lawyers.

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https://www.yahoo.com/news/totally-foreign-country-south-koreans-205938790.html

 

Just another isolated incident " not the norm " of Americas Heros at their finest.

 

And

 

Where American officers learn how to talk out their ass , we have more examples of " not the norm" and complainers who " should have known " what to do.

 

https://www.yahoo.com/news/black-us-army-cadets-were-230306621.html

 

 

Mind you, there is either credibility to all of these stories to some degree, or it is all just fabricated bullshit to try and destroy the military. An I mean all of the links in this thread.

 

Just curious if everyone got bored with this thread or if it was ghosted,  actually, never mind. I am just going to assume there is just no way to rationalize what I have been getting at, any more.

Edited by GLCsector3295

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