Jump to content
Kaser100

Oklahoma East now belongs to the tribes

Recommended Posts

Supreme Court rules that a large portion of Eastern Oklahoma is Native American territory

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/supreme-court-eastern-oklahoma-is-native-american-territory-2020-7

 

 

image.png

 


"In the beginning of a change the patriot is a scarce man, and brave, and hated and scorned. When his cause succeeds, the timid join him, for then it costs nothing to be a patriot.” ― Mark Twain

 

"I prefer dangerous FREEDOM over peaceful SLAVERY" -Thomas Jefferson

 

"Si vis pacem para bellum" - Every wise warrior there ever was.

 

lfr.jpg.91d35fb0dbad2fa6e5cc5b2544ce55d5.jpg

 

lfr.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
28 minutes ago, LetFreedomRing said:

Supreme Court rules that a large portion of Eastern Oklahoma is Native American territory

 

https://www.businessinsider.com/supreme-court-eastern-oklahoma-is-native-american-territory-2020-7

 

 

image.png

 

I say let them fight a new war. To keep it looser give it up

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 7/10/2020 at 10:23 AM, Saiga308snipe said:

Time for some new treaty's to take a lot of the land back to the USA most of these indians don't deserve it and it's been way to long in history to stay with a treat y that's been sign when none of us were born

Actually a lot do deserve it. Not only should the government uphold its agreements if you dont know about what a lot of those still living today have went through, maybe you need to read history and stop listening l to liberal teachers. A lot of natives were stolen by the states from their families then adopted out to whites whichwas one thing that was never suppose to happen. On top of that look at how many whites are claiming to be native who barely have one drop of native blood in them. That is almost like saying the constitution is nothing it was signed long before our time. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The constitution says the federal gov has the right to make treaties with other countries and the Indian nations.  We need to uphold our obligations to treaties.  Idk what that'll mean for ppl. I know those ppl having owned land in those areas still will own that land. It's complicated but it is what it is. Legal binding contracts are just that. Those Indians and the us government signed those agreements to stop the blood shed and end hot wars. We need to honor them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

First off the ruling only applied to legal jurisdiction, who can arrest and prosecute criminals, and what courts have jurisdiction (federal courts). They specifically chickened out on ruling on land ownership. Though they did find a tame Indian to say that a reservation is like a county and just like the county does not own all the land inside the county boundaries, the tribes don't own all the land inside the res. Thing is, a county is a political unit not a sovereign nation. Whereas a reservation is a sovereign nation, which means all land in the res should belong to the tribe. I get it, it's too late for the US to actually honor their word. But they could show some integrity, admit they violated the treaty by allowing non tribe member to steal the tribes' lands, and negotiate a settlement. It scares me that there are folks here who believe a treaty can simply be ignored, that giving someone your word and signing a contract with them, can just be forgotten. I get that there is no way to give back the land in question, people have lived there for quite a while and purchased their homes, businesses, etc. in good faith. But the US violated their contract and should do what's right. Our word MUST mean something, as individuals, as groups and as countries, or we are no different than the hordes trying to destroy us. They argue that the constitution and the bills of rights is old and outdated, that those who wrote and signed it are dead, and that we need not honor it any longer. The same argument being put forth for why we need not honor these reservation treaties. It's wrong, It's not American.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Am I the only one who feels that if they want to be separate and independent nations within another separate and independent nation, they should be required to have passports to leave it? 

 

They are a defeated people, either assimilate or wall them off and treat them like any other foreign nation.

 

And I don't give two craps about "stealing" their land. They were conquered militarily. It's not our fault the pinnacle of Indian technology was a stick with a rock attached to it. Stone age people, which they were, can't stand against iron.

 

There isn't a single nation on the face of the Earth that hasn't been conquered by someone else. Most of the time, the people who were there first, before the conquerors came in were wiped off the face of the Earth. Every last man, woman, and child. It's the way things were back then and the way things still are in parts of the world.

 

I still can't understand just how the rest of the world advanced beyond the stone age but the people in this hemisphere were still stuck in it. Really boggles the mind. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, mmurdock82abn said:

Am I the only one who feels that if they want to be separate and independent nations within another separate and independent nation, they should be required to have passports to leave it? 

 

They are a defeated people, either assimilate or wall them off and treat them like any other foreign nation.

 

And I don't give two craps about "stealing" their land. They were conquered militarily. It's not our fault the pinnacle of Indian technology was a stick with a rock attached to it. Stone age people, which they were, can't stand against iron.

 

There isn't a single nation on the face of the Earth that hasn't been conquered by someone else. Most of the time, the people who were there first, before the conquerors came in were wiped off the face of the Earth. Every last man, woman, and child. It's the way things were back then and the way things still are in parts of the world.

 

I still can't understand just how the rest of the world advanced beyond the stone age but the people in this hemisphere were still stuck in it. Really boggles the mind. 

They are stuck there cuz they get so much free stuff. It is what it is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ok you talk abput free things ? Theres not one damn free thing there. You stupid people don't get that its suppose to be about heritage. Yes there are indian clinics but they are also indian clinics open to the public. Schooling ? You apply for a pell grant or loan like everyone else. Monthly or yearly checks ?  That's a myth, there is nothing. To attend paid events, you pay the same as the public. You that think they hand things out are ignorant pos and should do some fact checking on Oklahoma tribes before running your mouths. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Missymurdock that land wasn't lost in a war it was suppose to be given to them in a treaty. You want to fight for your 2nd amendment rights which was written a long time ago , which was written by the government and say it's valid but instead of talking crap this should go to show you nothing the government has written is solid. Instead of you learning anything by it , you run your mouth. Learn if capable and if a life treaty by the government means nothing to you that should teach you to stop trusting anything the government says.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
24 minutes ago, Trish Scott said:

Missymurdock that land wasn't lost in a war it was suppose to be given to them in a treaty. You want to fight for your 2nd amendment rights which was written a long time ago , which was written by the government and say it's valid but instead of talking crap this should go to show you nothing the government has written is solid. Instead of you learning anything by it , you run your mouth. Learn if capable and if a life treaty by the government means nothing to you that should teach you to stop trusting anything the government says.

 

Ok, let's talk treaty. Why not adhere to ALL of the treaty rather than pick and choose? There is wording in the treaty that states x amount of male members of the tribe traveling together is a war party and is to be shot on sight. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Trish Scott said:

Missymurdock that land wasn't lost in a war it was suppose to be given to them in a treaty. You want to fight for your 2nd amendment rights which was written a long time ago , which was written by the government and say it's valid but instead of talking crap this should go to show you nothing the government has written is solid. Instead of you learning anything by it , you run your mouth. Learn if capable and if a life treaty by the government means nothing to you that should teach you to stop trusting anything the government says.

 

Also, I see members of any tribe as U.S. citizens. If they are U.S. citizens, they are NOT a sovereign nation. If they are a sovereign nation, then they are NOT U.S. citizens.  It's that simple.

 

Granting special "rights" to some U.S. citizens while withholding those same rights from all citizens across the board is blatantly unconstitutional. 

Edited by mmurdock82abn

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
4 hours ago, Cb85 said:

They are stuck there cuz they get so much free stuff. It is what it is.

Yeah you have no idea what life on the res is like. Unlike inner cities, the folks on the res really don't get any free stuff. Just the opposite. Any time it is discovered that there is something of value on their land (we thought we were giving them worthless land with no real value), we either break the treaty (read up on the black hills and why Custer was really wiped out), or we simply sell the resources, keep the money, and leave the tribes with a mess (read up on uranium mining in the Navajo Nation/four corners area). In the Navajo Nation/four corners area most people do not have running water and often do not have any potable water at all. Not because they don't have the wells but because the uranium mining the US sold the rights to, was handled so badly that all the mid depth water sources are now contaminated and undrinkable. Potable water aquifers are now so deep that well drilling is so expensive it is limited to only a few hub locations. And as if that wasn't bad enough, the companies and the US government/politicians who benefited, refused to even drill new wells or setup water tank truck distribution services, instead simply leaving thousands of folks without any water at all. It fell to private charitable groups to drill new hub wells and set up tanker truck delivery systems. So save me the free-stuff BS and the well-they-lost BS. Our government negotiated a peace with them based on treaties, agreements that gave them rights to certain lands. It and we have a moral obligation to do what's right and honor those agreements. 

Edited by MarcS

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Some of their issues is they simply don't have motivation to work. I know for a fact that many Indians get direct payments for doing nothing but being Indian.  So yes keep the treaties but also understand the real world issues with what's going on. It's not an all or nothing deal. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, mmurdock82abn said:

 

Also, I see members of any tribe as U.S. citizens. If they are U.S. citizens, they are NOT a sovereign nation. If they are a sovereign nation, then they are NOT U.S. citizens.  It's that simple.

 

Granting special "rights" to some U.S. citizens while withholding those same rights from all citizens across the board is blatantly unconstitutional. 

You have a valid point here. The whole idea of sovereign but at the same time subjects of the US was a crazy way for the US to have it's cake and eat it too. They were and weren't part of the US, as it suited the US (not the tribes). Only recently have they wised up and discovered that this actually served to give them some special privileges, like running casinos in areas where Americans could not. But this was not their choosing, this was done at the behest of the US government. So it really can't be used as an excuse to take away their lands, virtually the only thing they actually got in these treaties. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Just now, Cb85 said:

Some of their issues is they simply don't have motivation to work. I know for a fact that many Indians get direct payments for doing nothing but being Indian.  So yes keep the treaties but also understand the real world issues with what's going on. It's not an all or nothing deal. 

Yeah for some this is certainly true. But it's not like the majority are getting fat off the free stuff they get. Mostly it is their corrupt leadership that is getting rich, while the avg Joe lives at a level of poverty not seen outside of very poor 3rd world countries. But the underlying point is well taken. Any time the government becomes a givernment, people suffer in the long run. Taking away a person's self reliance and personal responsibility is a bad thing and is generally done to pacify them and make them subservient. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 minutes ago, MarcS said:

Yeah for some this is certainly true. But it's not like the majority are getting fat off the free stuff they get. Mostly it is their corrupt leadership that is getting rich, while the avg Joe lives at a level of poverty not seen outside of very poor 3rd world countries. But the underlying point is well taken. Any time the government becomes a givernment, people suffer in the long run. Taking away a person's self reliance and personal responsibility is a bad thing and is generally done to pacify them and make them subservient. 

 

I'd also add that issue is not specific to a certain people, can't pin it on any group. It's just something trash people do across the board regardless of race or creed. There are trashy people of all races.

 

I really wish we would stop listening to all the dividers of our society. We are one American race, made up of many ethnicities. Anyone who thinks otherwise is part of the problem. 

 

Everyone else in the world refers to us simply as American, regardless of ethnicity. We are the only ones who divide ourselves into sub groups.

 

Divide and conquer is running rampant in our American society.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
17 minutes ago, mmurdock82abn said:

 

I'd also add that issue is not specific to a certain people, can't pin it on any group. It's just something trash people do across the board regardless of race or creed. There are trashy people of all races.

 

I really wish we would stop listening to all the dividers of our society. We are one American race, made up of many ethnicities. Anyone who thinks otherwise is part of the problem. 

 

Everyone else in the world refers to us simply as American, regardless of ethnicity. We are the only ones who divide ourselves into sub groups.

 

Divide and conquer is running rampant in our American society.

I agree.  Some stereotypes exist because to some degree they are true. There are just bad ppl in every group. 

I also believe that everyone can work to better themselves but it's frustrating that the giveornment is subsidizing laziness.

But in any case we need to stand on our word with the contracts we have.   

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.



×
×
  • Create New...