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It is with a great uneasiness that i write about this subject. There is nothing civil about war, and i for one do not welcome war in any manner.

However, it is a subject making the rounds on social media and many of my family members are openly discussing it. So, i did some research and

found this article on a page called "SPLINTER" written by a person named Hamilton Nolan entitled "THIS IS ONLY THE BEGINNING".

This clown insists that me and my fascists (his words not mine) friends should be hounded while eating at a restaurant, and number of

other things to let us know that we are criminals and should be destroyed. OK, well Hamilton I would like to remind you that we are the ones

who have the guns, and you and your ilk will be put down rather quickly. Oh, you say California is your salvation because they will become

their own country, and then get the support of China. There are a lot of rich people in California who will not warm to that idea, as many of them

would not survive the purge that would soon follow. Also, California has a severe problem with homeless people. If you don't think they will start

raiding your supplies then you haven't studied the first civil war. Hamilton you have nothing to fear though, its not like your going to put your dumbass

on the front lines your calling for. No you have others do all the dirty work and then you'll write about it.

 

  My friends, these people are very dangerous, and extremely ignorant concerning things such as this.

But to me that makes them all the more dangerous...

 

https://splinternews.com/this-is-just-the-beginning-1827099100

 

Edited by Idlestorm
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I hope that you will come back and elaborate a bit on this.  I studied the article and did a little research because people bandy words around and try to use them as emotion laden buzz words.  Most Americans have been conditioned, Pavlovian style, to react to certain stimuli.   Tell a black man that a white guy is racist (sic) and even if the white guy never did a racist thing in his life, most black people will look upon him as if he's a leper.

 

There are issues that the right dominates and they do not, under any circumstances, allow anyone not even those in their own ranks, to stray from the party line.  You can think something is a problem, just like they do, but if you don't toe the line and agree with both the problem AND their solution, the right has some choice name calling for you.  

 

But, wait.  I saw the left do exactly the same thing a few moments ago.  The Dems are out there all protesting Trump's nominee for SCOTUS and the guy hasn't even been asked what his opinion is.  Does that make the Dems "fascist?"  I don't know that war of words will ever equal a physical war, but small skirmishes and the left hurling names rarely spreads out of the county it starts in.  Guess you will have to tell us more about your thoughts.

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 Actually i was wondering if someone smarter than me would help me out on this subject. As far as a war of words equaling a physical war, the first civil war "battle"

was when HOR (House Of Representative)  Preston Brooks took this cane and attacked Sumner Brooks, a Republican Senator. This happened in May of 1856 and the subject matter was over slavery. Brooks was given a token punishment, and a city in Florida named for him. Brooks resigned, but was re-elected in 1857, but died a few months before he could return to the House. Also, we have the guy just a few months ago who decided to take his target practice at a Republican softball team, and almost killed a Senator there. So, words may not make a war, but the actions that they foment can sure start them. Not sure if that's what your looking for, but that's the best i got. I'm not a expert at anything, but i do watch my surroundings and the times they are a changin.

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7 hours ago, Idlestorm said:

 Actually i was wondering if someone smarter than me would help me out on this subject. As far as a war of words equaling a physical war, the first civil war "battle"

was when HOR (House Of Representative)  Preston Brooks took this cane and attacked Sumner Brooks, a Republican Senator. This happened in May of 1856 and the subject matter was over slavery. Brooks was given a token punishment, and a city in Florida named for him. Brooks resigned, but was re-elected in 1857, but died a few months before he could return to the House. Also, we have the guy just a few months ago who decided to take his target practice at a Republican softball team, and almost killed a Senator there. So, words may not make a war, but the actions that they foment can sure start them. Not sure if that's what your looking for, but that's the best i got. I'm not a expert at anything, but i do watch my surroundings and the times they are a changin.

 

Okay, I was waiting for someone else to chime in.  Apparently everybody feels like I do - we're not that confident we're smarter than you.  I don't get out much.  A couple of weeks ago I saw Paul Newman's face on a bottle of salad dressing.  I thought they started doing what they used to do with milk cartons (when pictures of missing people were put on the cartons) and put the face of missing people on salad dressing.  After two weeks of looking for him, someone said he passed away years ago.  

 

That being said, I don't understand what help you need on the subject.  There have been a LOT of small political skirmishes, political assassinations, and marches / demonstrations where people get injured (fatalities are very rare.)  We survived eight years of a pot smoking, socialist Muslim and his attempts to turn America into a communist cesspool.  There was no uprising.  Antifa came on strong, but has petered out.  In my opinion, notice that is my opinion, once Trump leaves office,  the left is coming back to power with a vengeance.  If history is a good indicator, Trump will have a "change of heart" and sign National Gun Registration.  Now, why would I think that?

 

*  Ronald Reagan signed a bill to outlaw the future manufacture of fully automatics for civilian use

*  George Bush got rid of semi - auto imports (which explains why junk AK rifles go for over a grand)  and ripped up his NRA membership card

*  George W. Bush signed onto the National ID / REAL ID Act - E Verify, the so - called "Patriot Act," the creation of Homeland (IN) Security,  and an extensive background check for gun buyers (a clear violation of the Fourth Amendment)

 

The fact that Trump is urging Jeff Sessions to ban bump stocks AND there will be no "pre-ban" bump stocks does not bode well for gun owners.   GOA summed it this way:

 

"Gun Owners of America (GOA) is taking the lead against federal gun control and warning that an ATF ban on bump stocks could quickly expand into a ban on magazines and triggers."

 

https://www.gunowners.org/goa-on-bump-stocks.htm

 

Why would a liberal Attorney General stop with magazines and triggers?  Why not ban flash suppressors, bayonet lugs, pistol grips, "barrel shrouds," and telescoping stocks?  

 

As the list of prohibited persons grows larger and the list of banned firearms (as well as our access to them) grows, we are less and less able to defend ourselves.  Adding insult to injury, I can't find any militia leaders willing to tackle the tough questions about what do we do when the government refuses to abide by the Constitution as originally written and intended.  The government has been in high gear, testing our resolve since the 1980s.  With each era of resistance, they tighten the screws a bit tighter.  The government has minimized the will of the right to fight against Big Government (most see it as the savior.)   The fantasy of tanks rolling down your street taking guns won't happen.  The left will use our government and even a foreign government to put down any resistance, so I'm not sure where we go from here.  So, until we have some kind of idea as to when enough is enough, I'm going to display some skepticism and pessimism.  But, you know, I'd love to be wrong.  As Hannibal Smith used to say: "you gotta have a plan." 

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If your paying a grand for an ak47 then your smoking some serious crack  

 

The left has guns and if you combine with the fact they have allegiance to socialist and commmies party's you can expect that Russians and Mexicans can arm and train them.   On top of the major gang's are well armed and militarized.   Plus they infiltrated the police and miliitary.   Which is one more thing to consider the miliitary isn't going to just join the right side of the battle in fact you be shocked to see that the majority will gun grab and kill you.

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19 minutes ago, Megatron said:

If your paying a grand for an ak47 then your smoking some serious crack  

 

The left has guns and if you combine with the fact they have allegiance to socialist and commmies party's you can expect that Russians and Mexicans can arm and train them.   On top of the major gang's are well armed and militarized.   Plus they infiltrated the police and miliitary.   Which is one more thing to consider the miliitary isn't going to just join the right side of the battle in fact you be shocked to see that the majority will gun grab and kill you.

 

I wouldn't be surprised.  They already did it during Hurricane Katrina with local police and National Guard as a beta test for national gun confiscation.

 

NRA: The Untold Story of Gun Confiscation After Katrina

 

 

National Guard Confiscated Guns During Katrina and NOPD Raped Women

 

 

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2 hours ago, Megatron said:

If your paying a grand for an ak47 then your smoking some serious crack  

 

The left has guns and if you combine with the fact they have allegiance to socialist and commmies party's you can expect that Russians and Mexicans can arm and train them.   On top of the major gang's are well armed and militarized.   Plus they infiltrated the police and miliitary.   Which is one more thing to consider the miliitary isn't going to just join the right side of the battle in fact you be shocked to see that the majority will gun grab and kill you.

 

The left and the gangs are nowhere near as well armed as the average right winger.  Additionally, they lack the skills.  No doubt that the Russians could supply them with some arms.  But Mexicans?  They don't even trust their own people with weapons.  I remember once, they armed the Mexican police with slingshots.  What "arms" does Mexico manufacture?

 

I think you might be confusing conventional warfare with civil (internal) war.  Waco and Ruby Ridge told me that our own military and police will worry more about their paychecks and serving their master as opposed to protecting the Liberties of the people.  The biggest problem the American people have is the incremental encroachment on their Liberties by their own government.  The modern militia simply does not have the caliber of people that will sit down and articulate what their concept of Liberty is.  We reserve that time for arguing over petty scenarios that haven't happened, have never happened and never will happen.  We don't deal with the here and now.

 

I can't say whether or not someone smokes crack because they'd pay a grand for an AK 47, but unless you want a WASR or the cheap American knockoff... or a stamped rifle, then a grand is barely enough to buy a Norinco (esp. a Polytech) or one of the  high end milled weapons.  Most of that is due to the import ban, not the actual value of the weapons.  I don't know where you are from, but around here you still see AR rifles that are over a grand and even $2000 Glocks - though I don't have a clue what they can do that a factory model out of the box won't.

 

In my scenarios, I presume that the bulk of the LEO community would join the effort to disarm the people.  "It's the law" is the only think most of them seem to respond to.  Even in idle conversation, if they feel threatened by you even contemplating what you'd do in a SHTF scenario wherein our police and / or military is playing the part of the bad guy, those people will kill you.  They would kill you dead today over even idle conversation.

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I gotta say that the LEO's are one of the wildcards in any SHTF situation. I was highly disappointed by some local PD members I've known for years and their response to talk of 2A; one abruptly just walked away. The local Sherriffs deputies seem a little more aligned but not 100%. 

I attended a rally a couple months back and you could feel the disdain from some of the "peace keepers" who were watching attendees. 

As far as gangs, I believe some are certainly heavily armed and won't be squeamish in using violence. Hopefully they'll start by dispensing with their rivals first leaving less for the rest of us to worry about.

Lastly, we can't even be sure how our friends and family are going to respond if the going gets tough. All that to say keep your powder dry.

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4 hours ago, Dale said:

I gotta say that the LEO's are one of the wildcards in any SHTF situation. I was highly disappointed by some local PD members I've known for years and their response to talk of 2A; one abruptly just walked away. The local Sherriffs deputies seem a little more aligned but not 100%. 

I attended a rally a couple months back and you could feel the disdain from some of the "peace keepers" who were watching attendees. 

As far as gangs, I believe some are certainly heavily armed and won't be squeamish in using violence. Hopefully they'll start by dispensing with their rivals first leaving less for the rest of us to worry about.

Lastly, we can't even be sure how our friends and family are going to respond if the going gets tough. All that to say keep your powder dry.

 

Dale,

 

I always say we are a product of our experiences.  In my mind, the real bad (expletive deleted) types are bikers.  But, how do they react when they are being cracked down on?

 

http://www.newsweek.com/rhode-island-biker-gangs-49-arrested-following-largest-ever-police-crackdown-941971

 

http://www.kxxv.com/story/29096004/slideshow-mugs-of-bikers-arrested

 

I'm not seeing any push back, resistance, nor even a concerted effort to retaliate.  So, I have to base my own opinions of future performance on what people do right now.  A lot of the criminal base may be some mean dudes if they are confronted by one person they can intimidate.  But, how do they react when the equation is equalized?

 

With cops, about 97 percent of them have an authoritarian complex.  If you don't snap at their fingertips, they are liable to kill you.  I would refer you to the many instances cops get into situations where they end up gunning down unarmed black suspects.  Unfortunately, that is a close call.  Most of those shootings happen in high crime areas;  a man may have his back to you, but have a firearm tucked in the front of his pants around the stomach area.  With me, I have real life experience and have had threats by LEOs; once they planned to raid my home, kill me and claim I resisted arrest... that plan was foiled by a newswriter who got wind of it and knew their reasoning was pure cow manure of the bull variety.

 

Then there areexamples like this:

 

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/cops-arrested_us_576c2e13e4b0cedfa4b9470f

 

https://thefreethoughtproject.com/breaking-supreme-court-rules-cops-break-law-enforce-law/

 

That brings us to civilian militias.  If your Rights are being threatened, even many militias (a LEO front that recruits on this very board, for example) state:

 

"we remain a defense force only."

 

So, if the SHTF, NOBODY is on the side of the people.  There might be IF you happen to find a militia leadership smart enough to know that our forefathers fought for unalienable (not inalienable) Rights.  Then they would have to realize that America cannot be everything to everybody and, consequently they would know better than to give you the emotion laden buzz words that only appease liberals and have NO meaning in fact... and most militia sales pitches are not in line with the Constitution as originally written and intended.

 

In my mind, the liberals have influenced the right - and militias in general so that we have accepted, via subliminal messages, the proposition that we cannot win and that we have to cater to the far left. My experience is saying that family and friends may not respond when the time comes.  They have been misinformed, miseducated, misled and programmed.  And the brainwashing machine operates  24 / 7 / 365 in movies, music, news, on Fakebook, Twitter, etc.  Even the churches mislead the people rather than risk their non-profit status.  I'm on this board, but I have aspirations of adding to that where I can reach a new generation and tell them a message I learned many years ago that is NOT currently being taught anywhere.  And all this was common knowledge only two generations ago.

 

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, The Resister said:

 

The left and the gangs are nowhere near as well armed as the average right winger.  Additionally, they lack the skills.  No doubt that the Russians could supply them with some arms.  But Mexicans?  They don't even trust their own people with weapons.  I remember once, they armed the Mexican police with slingshots.  What "arms" does Mexico manufacture?

 

I think you might be confusing conventional warfare with civil (internal) war.  Waco and Ruby Ridge told me that our own military and police will worry more about their paychecks and serving their master as opposed to protecting the Liberties of the people.  The biggest problem the American people have is the incremental encroachment on their Liberties by their own government.  The modern militia simply does not have the caliber of people that will sit down and articulate what their concept of Liberty is.  We reserve that time for arguing over petty scenarios that haven't happened, have never happened and never will happen.  We don't deal with the here and now.

 

I can't say whether or not someone smokes crack because they'd pay a grand for an AK 47, but unless you want a WASR or the cheap American knockoff... or a stamped rifle, then a grand is barely enough to buy a Norinco (esp. a Polytech) or one of the  high end milled weapons.  Most of that is due to the import ban, not the actual value of the weapons.  I don't know where you are from, but around here you still see AR rifles that are over a grand and even $2000 Glocks - though I don't have a clue what they can do that a factory model out of the box won't.

 

In my scenarios, I presume that the bulk of the LEO community would join the effort to disarm the people.  "It's the law" is the only think most of them seem to respond to.  Even in idle conversation, if they feel threatened by you even contemplating what you'd do in a SHTF scenario wherein our police and / or military is playing the part of the bad guy, those people will kill you.  They would kill you dead today over even idle conversation.

Where you do live 2012 ...  

 

You can build ar15 for 400 dollars.  I can get a ak for 450 all day long even if they suck.

 

2000 dollar glocks?   Are they gold plated with diamonds.  Seriously I can't take you seriously anymore  

 

The left has training and only a idiot would under estimate his opponent. I guess you might wanna focus on tactics and copy and paste Facebook rants.

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My dos pesos: The OP's linked article reads like an anarchists rant, an anarchist who would throw a fit as soon as the "evil corporate" toys like his iphone and other stuff quit working. Do we need to worry about the vociferous betas that post on the internet? Not so much. What you should be concerned with are the small groups out there that are committed, armed and do train regularly. And yes, they are out there. They aren't stupid (they understand and ruthlessly follow OPSEC), they aren't completely unskilled, and they do have experienced veterans acting as training cadre among them.  If you're not building your intel picture and fleshing out your battlespace you'r behind the powercurve.

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3 hours ago, Megatron said:

Where you do live 2012 ...  

 

You can build ar15 for 400 dollars.  I can get a ak for 450 all day long even if they suck.

 

2000 dollar glocks?   Are they gold plated with diamonds.  Seriously I can't take you seriously anymore  

 

The left has training and only a idiot would under estimate his opponent. I guess you might wanna focus on tactics and copy and paste Facebook rants.

Hell, dude, if you want to call a man a liar... why sugarcoat it?

 

https://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/threads/fs-ft-zev17-dragonfly.1723804/

 

https://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/threads/fs-ft-romanian-cugir-psl-1400-prices-updated.1723656/

 

https://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/threads/fs-ft-ak-for-fathers-day-unmolested-mak-90-pretty-much-as-new.1723612/

 

https://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/threads/ft-norinco-pre-ban-56s-2-bakelite-sidefolder-rare-early-import-no-import-markings.1723557/

 

https://www.theoutdoorstrader.com/threads/fs-norinco-56s-1-ak-47.1723360/

 

http://www.armslist.com/posts/7215712/atlanta-georgia-handguns-for-sale-trade--glock-17-gen-4-battleworn-ton-of-upgrades

 

http://www.armslist.com/posts/8388137/atlanta-georgia-rifles-for-sale--vepr--unmodified--7-62x39---banned---excellent-condition-

 

http://www.armslist.com/posts/8609075/dalton-georgia-rifles-for-sale--romanian-cugir-ak47-7-62--package

 

http://www.armslist.com/posts/8556593/atlanta-georgia-rifles-for-sale--ak-magpul-

 

I will take this down after a couple of days because, having proven you wrong, yet again, I don't need your acknowledgment.

 

 

We have $400 guns here too.  But, if that is all your life is worth, then go with an el - cheapo - I'm not the one who can tell you the value of what your life is worth.  To some extent, you get what you pay for.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Skillet said:

My dos pesos: The OP's linked article reads like an anarchists rant, an anarchist who would throw a fit as soon as the "evil corporate" toys like his iphone and other stuff quit working. Do we need to worry about the vociferous betas that post on the internet? Not so much. What you should be concerned with are the small groups out there that are committed, armed and do train regularly. And yes, they are out there. They aren't stupid (they understand and ruthlessly follow OPSEC), they aren't completely unskilled, and they do have experienced veterans acting as training cadre among them.  If you're not building your intel picture and fleshing out your battlespace you'r behind the powercurve.

 

I know people that are skilled beyond any question, but we find ourselves searching for the ultimate answer just about every week:

 

1)  If we passed on tomorrow, none of us are currently passing our skills onto a younger generation.  Most of the people we know are into video games and trying to look and dress like hood rats.  Some are on drugs and / or have a criminal record.  You have no idea what it's like to find younger people to recruit in these times

 

2)  Small groups have not been able to stop anything - even at the grass roots level.  How many times have you gotten physically involved when someone's constitutional Liberties were at stake?

 

3)  Most militias see themselves ONLY as a defensive force - and an extension of Homeland (IN) Security and not active like our founding fathers were

 

4)  When, other than the freemen (i.e. the Bundys), have you witnessed citizens standing up against the government?

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3 hours ago, The Resister said:

 

I know people that are skilled beyond any question, but we find ourselves searching for the ultimate answer just about every week:

 

1)  If we passed on tomorrow, none of us are currently passing our skills onto a younger generation.  Most of the people we know are into video games and trying to look and dress like hood rats.  Some are on drugs and / or have a criminal record.  You have no idea what it's like to find younger people to recruit in these times 

 

2)  Small groups have not been able to stop anything - even at the grass roots level.  How many times have you gotten physically involved when someone's constitutional Liberties were at stake? 

 

3)  Most militias see themselves ONLY as a defensive force - and an extension of Homeland (IN) Security and not active like our founding fathers were

 

4)  When, other than the freemen (i.e. the Bundys), have you witnessed citizens standing up against the government? 

 

Specifically I was addressing the folly of underestimating the threat.

Other than the Bundy's, well it's happened (although not totally successfully, at least six time I know of. Ruby Ridge, Waco, The Montana Freemen, Republic of Texas, And the Browns. Let's not forget The Battle of Athens however, which was a success.

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4 hours ago, The Resister said:

Your joking right.   Seriously you think by look for some custom job firearm that proves your right.   The psl isn't a ak.  Yes uses the similar gas system but isn't.   I'll run my budget build against anyone's over paid Daniel defense .  You didn't prove me wrong just your dumb enough to ask the car dealer to pay more. 

 

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palmettostatearmory.com

 

I know it's not as fancy as buying someone else's work but I figured maybe someone else might never of heard of them.   You can build anything you want or buy built.  As far glocks go I walk out the door with gen 4 small frames for 400 and larger for 450 to 500.

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5 hours ago, Skillet said:

 

Specifically I was addressing the folly of underestimating the threat.

Other than the Bundy's, well it's happened (although not totally successfully, at least six time I know of. Ruby Ridge, Waco, The Montana Freemen, Republic of Texas, And the Browns. Let's not forget The Battle of Athens however, which was a success.

 

You quoted failures, not successes, that have had me begging for years asking about the same things our founders discussed that prompted them to finally separate from a tyrannical government.

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4 hours ago, Megatron said:

palmettostatearmory.com

 

I know it's not as fancy as buying someone else's work but I figured maybe someone else might never of heard of them.   You can build anything you want or buy built.  As far glocks go I walk out the door with gen 4 small frames for 400 and larger for 450 to 500.

 

Nobody disputes that you can buy $400 guns.  You may as well have called me a liar with your insult.  But, high dollar firearms are pretty commonplace where I live.

 

Even a Glock gets expensive:  I have a hard time pulling down the small tab when taking off the slide. They make an extended tab.  That's a ten dollar part.  The next most common upgrade is the extended slide release.  Okay, that is roughly twenty bucks. But, nobody likes the cheap plastic sights on the Glock, so you put on some Trijicon sights.  That will cost, at least, $125 installed.  If you ever have fears of a SHTF scenario and needing your Glock to be able to feed handloads / reloads, that will cost you another barrel.  You don't want to shoot handloads out of a hexagonal barrel.  Add extra if you're into the latest craze, the threaded barrel.  Add a few extra mags, a mag loader, holsters, spare parts kit, and ammo...   

 

On an AR, you can buy cheap commercial guns and spend big bucks retrofitting it with milspec stuff.  Just a good barrel for an AR is upwards of $200 (the Faxon 1 x 8, 4150, Melonite is top tier in that category.)  A WMD nickel boron bolt carrier group and hammer is upward of $200 more.  A milspec set of parts for the lower are going for $50.  Add a decent stock, handguards, and a quality optic...

 

You can buy cheap guns and the phosphate barrels won't resist corrosion; they will burn out quicker, not be able to withstand bouts of emptying your magazine.  The stocks break very easily, and $30 handguards / rails that you attach optics to may not be stable or accurate.  I guess all that stuff is better than nothing, but only you know the value of your life.

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Sorry for hopping in here trijicon doesn't make a.good rmr under 400$. The deplorable General builds them same palmettostatearmory guns.i know they'll send a bullet down range i built one for fun because of Megatron.but I wouldn't use it in any real fight good for practice and a extra gun to help arm unarmed buddies.but a good battle rifle is like a boat... bout another thousand...as for civil war it seems like most people who even care are arm chair  ninjas and won't do much  more then type....no disrespect to anyone here i don't mean anyone here...I like the topic..is there a difference between civil war and revolution because I imagined a revolution could make for a faster pace and less injurys....again the only way I could stand for a revolution or civil war is if i knew Americans wouldn't be killed because like planet of the apes.lol Americans don't kill Americans....isn't that why we hate the patriot act.between spying and held without trial. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by Ripcannon

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On 7/9/2018 at 3:27 PM, Idlestorm said:

It is with a great uneasiness that i write about this subject. There is nothing civil about war, and i for one do not welcome war in any manner.

However, it is a subject making the rounds on social media and many of my family members are openly discussing it. So, i did some research and

found this article on a page called "SPLINTER" written by a person named Hamilton Nolan entitled "THIS IS ONLY THE BEGINNING".

This clown insists that me and my fascists (his words not mine) friends should be hounded while eating at a restaurant, and number of

other things to let us know that we are criminals and should be destroyed. OK, well Hamilton I would like to remind you that we are the ones

who have the guns, and you and your ilk will be put down rather quickly. Oh, you say California is your salvation because they will become

their own country, and then get the support of China. There are a lot of rich people in California who will not warm to that idea, as many of them

would not survive the purge that would soon follow. Also, California has a severe problem with homeless people. If you don't think they will start

raiding your supplies then you haven't studied the first civil war. Hamilton you have nothing to fear though, its not like your going to put your dumbass

on the front lines your calling for. No you have others do all the dirty work and then you'll write about it.

 

  My friends, these people are very dangerous, and extremely ignorant concerning things such as this.

But to me that makes them all the more dangerous...

 

https://splinternews.com/this-is-just-the-beginning-1827099100

 

 

I want to thank the OP for this challenging thread.  I didn't even mind going a couple of rounds with Megatron.  But, we didn't begin to scratch the surface of the OP's article.  So I apologize to the OP for ignoring where his link was going.  Therefore, I want to quote something from the article and share some really personal thoughts here.  According to the article:

 

"The day will come, sooner that you all think, when Trump administration officials will look back fondly on the time when all they had to worry about was getting hollered at at a Mexican restaurant. When you aggressively (expletive deleted) with people’s lives, you should not be surprised when they decide to (expletive deleted) with yours."

 

"One of the founding fathers, Thomas Paine, said something relative to this.  He said:

He that would make his own liberty secure, must guard even his enemy from oppression; for if he violates this duty, he establishes a precedent that will reach to himself."

 

Paine had his faults and the article that is the subject of this thread is apparently from someone who is anti-Trump.  But, what I will tell you is that a broken clock has the potential to be right twice a day.  In my mind nothing illustrates the above point better than a discussion of the Printz case.  The Printz case was a United States Supreme Court case wherein local sheriffs refused to be commanded to enforce federal laws.  Many sheriffs across the country had filed suit and the Court rolled them into one case in order to answer the issue.  The Court ruled:

 

"The Court quoted Federalist No. 51’s argument that by giving voters control over dual sovereign governments “a double security arises to the rights of the people. The different governments will control each other, at the same that each will be controlled by itself.”[11] The Court concluded that allowing the Federal government to draft the police officers of the 50 states into its service would increase its powers far beyond what the Constitution intends."

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Printz_v._United_States

 

I had supported one of the original Plaintiffs with both money and legal research.  The man I know, (Sheriff Richard Mack even spoke here at Survival expos that I was affiliated with. But, recently he was remorseful for having won the case because it was cited as successful precedent in California to protect Sanctuary Cities.  NOBODY seems to get the point that Thomas Paine made.  As strategists, the people on the right suck.  I realize that I'm dumber than a box of rocks, but the 14th Amendment makes many court-room wins for the right, an equal win for the left.  You see, the 14th Amendment guarantees equal protection to all persons.  

 

So, from a strategy view, everybody ignores the fact that the political pendulum swings both ways.  I've been laughed off of a couple of "right wing" boards because I disagreed with the NRA's support of banning bump stocks via Executive fiat.  For, if the government can ban bump stocks via the Attorney General, what keeps the liberals from using a future Attorney General from outlawing flash suppressors, high capacity magazines, pistol grips, folding stocks, and "barrel shrouds?"  

 

When we "win" elections and get our people in office,  they must be able to make decisions that cannot be used against us in the future.  That's the first problem.  And, once we've created bad precedents; once the laws we lobbied for are being used against us, the modern militias (a good portion of them)  have declared they are a defense force only.  So, currently I haven't witnessed anyone articulating how the militia plays a role in reestablishing Liberty - and especially after they led the charge to create tyrannical precedents.  That one about separating children from their parents was NOT a sound idea - not from a PR point of view (already proven) - OR a legal one... particularly when, under a flaming liberal, many of you could be declared domestic terrorists and YOUR children put into the system without Due Process.  We do not address that reality.  And WHEN it happens, it has not been explained to me how the militia would play a role in protecting the people when their leaders are only about "upholding the law."  We do not treat others the way we want to be treated; we're not making sound decisions - we're making costly mistakes - and we don't know who would be a friend and who would be a foe if the SHTF.  This is certainly worthy of more conversation than I can articulate in one posting.

 

 

 

 

 

 

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10 minutes ago, Ripcannon said:

Sorry for hopping in here trijicon doesn't make a.good rmr under 400$. The deplorable General builds them same palmettostatearmory guns.i know they'll send a bullet down range i built one for fun because of Megatron.but I wouldn't use it in any real fight good for practice and a extra gun to help arm unarmed buddies.but a good battle rifle is like a boat... bout another thousand...as for civil war it seems like most people who even care are arm chair  ninjas and won't do much  more then type....no disrespect to anyone here i don't mean anyone here...I like the topic..is there a difference between civil war and revolution because I imagined a revolution could make for a faster pace and less injurys....again the only way I could stand for a revolution or civil war is if i knew Americans wouldn't be killed because like planet of the apes.lol Americans don't kill Americans....isn't that why we hate the patriot act.between spying and held without trial. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Ripcannon,

 

I don't take any of this personally.  I train and prepare daily.  When you're not on Fakebook, Twitter, have no satellite or dish for tv, and you are only on a small number of boards with the ability to type 70 wpm, I tend to make things look like something they are not.

 

I hope you will read my above posting and, since you brought it up, the so - called "Patriot Act" was not passed by the left.  It was passed by the Right - and a very specific faction of the right.  I keep repeating something, but the masses are oblivious to the obvious.  Do we do unto others as we would have them to do unto us?  

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I stir up a lot of controversy on conservative Facebook groups by saying that I am tired of giving up liberty for more security or prosperity. These are things that the citizen must strive to achieve versus being handed down from those in government.

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Im with you there i don't want the police to help me or any welfare i just want nobody telling me what I can and can't do or what my kids can and can't do.

Edited by Ripcannon

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PSA? They seemed to be too good to be true so we built a mid length kit that was on clearance and hammered it with 5,000 rounds of cheap brown bear steel cased 62g with nothing more than a boresnake, brush scrub of the bolt and firing pin, and a gas system carb cleaner flushout followed by a super light coat of CLP  after every 1,000. All stoppages were due to faulty mags, and honestly we weren't counting but I'd say there was less than a dozen. The only  extraordinary measures we took during assembly was to lap the face of the upper as part of a class, and then it didn't really remove a lot of material (I've seen Colts that were way worse) . Afterward we had a little excessive extractor wear (expected) but otherwise the rifle performed above expectations.  If you buy a kit (or rifle) look for the FN barreled ones. And stay the hell away from the PTAC crap they sell.

 

Back on topic:

A REAL conflict on American soil is going to look like a conglomeration of Rwanda, Bosnia, Chechnya, Angola, etc. There will be so many different groups and factions vying for local dominance and resources it ain't going to be funny, and isn't going to look like any "GW" model to date. There will be no "normal", only atypical regional and isolated local tactical situations that will likely change often. In large urban areas areas where already well established, equipped, and trained criminal organizations exist (gangs, rogue militias, etc.) will most likely establish dominance after law enforcement and the national guard quit showing up. Remember, this ain't hadjiland, those guys live in the very communities that will be in the middle of a conflict and their families safety is going to be their #1 priority.

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