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Ripcannon

To spend or not to spend battle rifle

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Ive seen this convo, come up before and theres always a heated argument you mean "you mean Daniel defense kills better then my s/w mp 15 or my sweet KelTec Sub2000 NB 40 S&W Nickel Boron/Black 15+1"...and to that I say no if it can send a bullet it will work....Here's the BUT I firmly believe if your gonna have a battle rifle you want one you can hide behind feel safe with no matter what so if that's a 400$ kit you put together fine hell I feel safe if you have my back its the thought that counts anyway it will most likely work...to jump from my point magazine failure is a pretty common problem on every gun I operate and little hiccups like failure to eject...its how you roll with the punches and recover that being said I would recommend carrying a back up so now your spending 800$ anyway  you may fined it in your better interest to just buy a mini 14 from ruger for like 750$ at least magz are stupid cheap and ammos even cheaper...and I my opinion witch is right to have a relationship with your main battle rifle you gotta spend a amount that makes you feel more for it that's my opinion I have a weird relationship with my 50 and .308 and I trust um...that's my rant...id like to know other opinions...if you can only afford a high point save up and if your that broke a gun shouldn't be your first priority!

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Ok time for a little personal gun history!  My first pistol I bought right after I turned 21 was a Ruger Security 6, .357 magnum with a 4" barrell.  I bought it used, got a good price on it and it was a very nice pistol.  

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It was solid and a classic, wish I still had it but after a couple years I sold it for a Colt Light Weight Officers .45 APC for better concealability.  I carried it up until about 3 years ago.

 

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I carried this Colt for 29 years and it served me well.  It actually came in handy a couple times in my life while carrying it in preventing robbery or harm to myself.  Eventually though this old dog can learn new tricks and I came around to thinking that with modern ammunition improvements and the 9mm being the most abundant pistol cartridge in the world as well as the US, being the budget warrier still back then I sold this to help purchase my first 9mm pistol, the S&W M&P 9c. 

 

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This was a great carry gun and budget friendly!  The only thing is that I really prefer a hammer fired gun, it's my preference.  I was doing better with a new job by then so I saved up and got me a Sig Sauer SP2022 SA/DA 9mm.

 

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I really like this gun and I like the SA/DA with decocker manual of arms very much.  I actually prefer it over SA only.  However despite what SIG says about this being a compact gun, it's really closer to a full sized pistol in dimensions and weight.  Not really comfortable or Practical for concealed carry so I currently have this as my GTW side arm.  Since I decided on a SA/DA for concealed carry that kind of limited my options quite a bit.  I finally decided on an HK P2000 V3 which is a more compact pistol with a DA/SA Decocker manual of arms but similar in size and weight to the S&W M&P 9c which I sold to help me buy the HK P2000 V3.

 

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So yes it is important to get something as soon as you can and of good quality but it doesn't have to be your ultimate gun right off the bat, you can trade up and save up for something else later, but do #alwayscarry.

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I agree 350$IMAG0002-1.jpgget a custom gun that works if your looking for your first handgun...but my opinion I never relied on a handgun so if it puts lead on paper coincidently ima fan.as for a battle rifle you will feel more confident in your gun if you got time workin on it.id still recommend a dpms oracle over a m&p 15.   (not my gun mine has the American flag grips and is red white and blue)

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security 6 might be my favorite revolver...its a sweet little flamethrower my dad has one that has a sawed 2inch barrel but that grip makes it a dream to shoot.

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I'll have to disagree about the Mini-14. Quality mags for that thing are stupidly priced, whereas Magpul Gen2 Pmags for the AR can be had for less than $10. We're in the "golden age' for AR's now and even 10s can be built for under $550.

 

DPMS over S&W? Aww heck no. Panther Piss arms has some of the worst QA/QC in the industry. I've had to work on too many of them to get them right. The Oracles are problematic right out of the box. I've seen non-staked castle nuts, over/under torqued barrels, improperly staked carrier keys, different metal from the barrel gas blocks (different expansion rate/gas leaks), different height sight planes, etc. etc.  

 

 

 

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I hear you there but I never bought a rifle I didn't have to or want to fuck with first...I stand behind what I say right or wrong...but you seem smart then how do I get this barrel nut off a wrench aint cutting it,,,,,ive never had a gas leak and really the sights lol come on.i agree on mini 14 mags I hate pro mag now!!!!

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If you're using a cheap wrench get the Magpul one, it makes a difference. If it's a DPMS you may have to use a MAPP torch and plumbers paste to put a little (LITTLE) heat to it. I've broken really tough ones loose before by cutting the delta ring assembly off and using the barrel nut wrench and a strap wrench at the same time. DPMS does not use moly grease on their builds (as per the specs) so the chances of having a seized barrel nut are likely. Worst case break the dremel out and cut the nut off.

 

Here's a page I refer folks to when they ask about buying an Oracle: https://primaryandsecondary.com/autopsy-of-a-rifle-dpms-oracle-5-56-mm/

 

For those that live hand to mouth I usually work with them and have them buy a part or two every payday, save up for the costlier parts, and before long we're sitting at the bench and I'm talking them through building their rifle. Is it an LMT? No. Is it a rifle that they know inside and out and know it's assembled right and functions consistently and properly when they finish? Absolutely.  

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Some are worse then others.  I swapped a upper for a buddy it was a sport non ejection door for one that had it with the brass deflector.   

 

The nut was on so tight that I added a extention.  It eventually came off.  Swapped his barrel and all that over gave him a new delta ring with some moly lube.    He gave me the old upper and I was going use it with a 22lr build.  Till I noticed the upper was twisted.  You couldn't put a charging handle down it 

 

I kept it as a funny wall part. 

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The biggest thing i can say is train with the battle rifle.  Take it to a 3 gun event.   They typically have open events to new guys.  It's often less the 20 bucks to get in.

 

Now you have a chance to run the rifle shotgun and pistol in a stress environment.   I don't play to win but to see what fails me the rifle the pistol or anything else.

 

The budget builds if you do it right and get a good barrel and polish the trigger your going be on par with the top tier rifles as far accuracy and reliability.   

 

Where do the top tier rifles have strengths.    I am not sure other then it's like buying fancy wheels for a car.  Looks nice maybe fits better but it doesn't change the over all performance.   Anyone can put a larger charging handle or handguards..    

 

I often see the guy who bought a Daniel defense rifle and it sits in the safe.   To afraid to get it banged up.

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This is the obligatory thread of every militia and prepper forum out there.  Opinions are worth what you pay for them, so my approach on this subject is much different. But, here it is:

 

1)  IF you are a prepper and / or you see yourself as a citizen soldier, a MAIN BATTLE RIFLE is a priority.  This is a tool  that you use to protect your life and the lives of family members and other loved ones with.  You may have to pull your weight in defending your community all the way up to your country with it.  Only YOU know the value of your life or loved ones, but I pick the best piece of equipment that I can realistically use.  By that,  I mean that if you're older, short and small, or have a physical limitation you might not opt for the heavier calibers like .308.  Likewise, if you're tall and lanky, you might find short rifles to be a PITA.  We had a 6' 2" recruit once with a .30 caliber carbine as his first rifle.  His first day out and his face looked like hamburger where he scratched himself

 

2)  When it comes to weight, everything is relative in a rifle.  IF you see yourself sheltering in place and having to defend your piece of property; if you see yourself living off the land and feeding yourself from the game you shoot; if you think a large part of your shooting will be to keep people off your property, then you start thinking larger calibers.  You cannot reach out and touch someone with a .223 / 5.56 caliber.  If you plan on being on the move, you need a smaller rifle so that you can accommodate more ammunition... unless you are the designated marksman on a fire team

 

3)  The political pendulum swings back and forth.  One day, the left will be back in charge.  Therefore, what you own may be what you get stuck with.  Me, personally, I prefer military surplus and / or military style weaponry for two reasons:  They are generally more durable than commercial rifles AND there tends to be many more spare parts and accessories for them on the market.   I tend to think you need a NATO based weapon (5.56 or 7.62 x 51) around due to ammunition availability

 

4)  IF you happen to become the team's Designated Marksman (DM) you have to rethink your entire strategy.  In that instance, you have to think about optics first and then choose the rifle that best accommodates your optics

 

5)  If you are a tight budget, there are a LOT of AR 15 rifles that sell for under $500 new.  If you buy a milspec receiver (and AVOID the composite lowers) you can always upgrade and customize an AR to have the features that you like.  You can order barrels and bolts that exceed what the military uses - and the same goes for sights and most other internal parts

 

6)  If your budget is really tight, you can buy a Mosin Nagant  decent shooter grade and a spam can (440 rounds of ammo) for under $450

 

7)  Below that, get yourself a Ruger 10 / 22, a couple of high cap magazines, and a brick of ammo.    

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At master gunner with the acog on 20 inch flattop m16 you get familiar with hitting. Man size target at 800.  

 

Even at 300 meters i am typically 2 out of 3 on a good day.

 

I'll agree the poly rifles for ar are only good for one thing and that's a 22lr trainer. 

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4 minutes ago, The Resister said:

Opinions

thanks for the reminder bro...im guilty of thinking my opinion was fact on this subject in all cases....I got a guy that shows up consistently...with a pump action 30-30 and the weirdest ar pistol(357 sig) you ever saw...both guns are in the mid to cheap $range...hes not compatible at all even his side arms a 22 mag...were my opinion turns to fact_  is the extra lbs hes packing to keep up...I recently got him a ar....he sold it to get and make the ar pistol,he swares by his gear and I dropped the argument with him but fact is when we train for evey 2 ppl theres one mule,meaning 2legged ammo truck,he don't get this,,because of mixed ammo takes time to sort.... opinion's are like assholes everyone has one. another guy a DM on the team only shoots .22lr so these are the ppl im working with.lol...

 

1 hour ago, Megatron said:

The biggest thing i can say is train with the battle rifle.  Take it to a 3 gun event.

I couldn't agree more training is key for most how do you get to carnegie hall...as for adding pressure I like to get a person or 2 that likes to shoot and place wagers(I bet) ive never seen anyone afraid to bang there gun up but ive seen that first scratch on the new flat dark earth sidearm joe shmoe just got made 1 tear trickle down his cheek.lol

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29 minutes ago, Megatron said:

At master gunner with the acog on 20 inch flattop m16 you get familiar with hitting. Man size target at 800

how about engaging multiple targets at that distance and making consistent hits...and  not that ankle hand non-sense but in the triangle ...but if you can achieve putting three chin ta tits try putting just one above the lips.ive found this to be the faster way to engage multiple targets.

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1 minute ago, Ripcannon said:

how about engaging multiple targets at that distance and making consistent hits...and  not that ankle hand non-sense but in the triangle ...but if you can achieve putting three chin ta tits try putting just one above the lips.ive found this to be the faster way to engage multiple targets.

Oh I get it and at some point I might build a ar10.  

 

You sound like you got your hands full of mix calibers and guns. 

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yeah its a shit show some days with ammo...for the most part .223/5.56 wylde runs the show followed by 10mm and .308...all other ammo got to be kept in the "reloading shed"....because of this I found that a 10mm will easily fire a 40cal...Ive started some thinking on your small group ways if I can figure how to make it work for me I might head that direction...maybe

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31 minutes ago, Ripcannon said:

thanks for the reminder bro...im guilty of thinking my opinion was fact on this subject in all cases....I got a guy that shows up consistently...with a pump action 30-30 and the weirdest ar pistol(357 sig) you ever saw...both guns are in the mid to cheap $range...hes not compatible at all even his side arms a 22 mag...were my opinion turns to fact_  is the extra lbs hes packing to keep up...I recently got him a ar....he sold it to get and make the ar pistol,he swares by his gear and I dropped the argument with him but fact is when we train for evey 2 ppl theres one mule,meaning 2legged ammo truck,he don't get this,,because of mixed ammo takes time to sort.... opinion's are like assholes everyone has one. another guy a DM on the team only shoots .22lr so these are the ppl im working with.lol...

 

I couldn't agree more training is key for most how do you get to carnegie hall...as for adding pressure I like to get a person or 2 that likes to shoot and place wagers(I bet) ive never seen anyone afraid to bang there gun up but ive seen that first scratch on the new flat dark earth sidearm joe shmoe just got made 1 tear trickle down his cheek.lol

 

In these small militia groups there is always this argument over rifles, calibers, etc. but, here's the bottom line if you are in a group.  You need standardization if you're going to operate on a team.  If one man runs out of ammo, the other should be able to toss him a mag full of the same caliber from his gear.  If the DM needs to switch and use the smaller rifle of a fallen / injured unit member, he should be transitioning to a familiar platform.  A unit showing up with a hodge podge of weaponry and calibers sounds like a clusterxxxx waiting to happen.

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o yeah brother you said it...I tried standardizing but im no dictator so now I force people to carry 500 rounds of there ammo plus a minimum of 6 mags....I went as far as getting ruck sacks full of mags for .223/5.56 but that only fixed a small portion of my problem....the guy carrying a 870 is limited to 50-100 shells unless on a atv or utv the 30-30 guy might carry 500 rounds he might not....I said a few weeks back we have to carry atleast the same cal sidearms it be nice to do a group buy like we did with .303 Enfield's in the beginning...by the way that was supposed to  be the dm rifle to start...again if you were to see us in public it looks like 6 serious guys with tats and a bunch of wv hicks in camo with wood rifles.

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2 hours ago, Megatron said:

The biggest thing i can say is train with the battle rifle.  Take it to a 3 gun event.   They typically have open events to new guys.  It's often less the 20 bucks to get in.

 

Now you have a chance to run the rifle shotgun and pistol in a stress environment.   I don't play to win but to see what fails me the rifle the pistol or anything else.

 

BINGO!

I am amazed at the number of people that only have one mag for a rifle, and never try any others, then wonder why their stuff jambs up when it's actually tested. I have owned several rifles that liked one generation of pmag and not another, or one certain mag would have issues feeding. Only way to tell is to test and see.

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Really a dmr could be just a heavy barrel ar15 with a focus on accuracy  and nice optics  

 

The crew serve role is similar 

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Really a dmr could be just a heavy barrel ar15 with a focus on accuracy  and nice optics  

 

The crew serve role is similar 

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    BuryTheHatchet Shammer Let_Freedom_Ring Whiskey6 SPECTRE 6 Skillet Ripcannon Megatron The Resister Lance R Dav Harzin John Last ImTexan Scott Lance Smith WmE Cobb
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